Environment, Coasts, Oceans, & Infrastructure

I work for a small Water District and we are expanding our treatment plant, adding 4 new filters, upgrading pre-treatment as well as building new admin building and laboratories ($11 Million dollars is budgeted).  We are trying to find some references that verify what a reasonable consulting engineering fee is for each of these two phases;

 Phase 1 – 60% Design and Contractor selection

• • Testing of facility, existing capacity stress tests, etc.
  • All calculation for build-out treatment plant process design
  • Consulting engineering (including electrical, architectural, structural, mechanical and process design) for 60% design
  • CMaR (Contractor) selection (including development of contract documents and specifications, scheduling, permitting, and discipline coordination).
• Phase 2 – Construction Administration (approximately 18 - 22 months)
  • Bring 60% design plans to final design, prepare final construction specification for the Contractor to develop the GMP coordinate and attend engineering and construct-ability work sessions with CMaR (Contractor) and District to develop project within District's budget
  • Review equipment submittals, construction observation, review monthly pay application form CMaR, prepare responses to Request for Information (RFI), handle Change Orders
  • Provide training to treatment plant process start-ups, close-out contract including walk-through and punch-list, assemble O&M manuals, warranties, prepare as-builts, state permitting requirements.

Does anyone have any industry documents (ASCE, APWA, AWWA, or other..) that we can reference for typical percentages we should expect to pay?

 Thank you in advance!

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Wendy Weiman, P.E.
M.ASCE
Project Engineer
Golden CO
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Hi Wendy.  All I can tell you is I'm going through a similar process right now on a much larger scale and I'd be glad to share my real time information as it becomes available.


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Jonathan Hardin M.ASCE
DIR OF WTR OPS
Columbia TN
(931)3757646
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Wendy:
Phase 1 items should be much less expensive than phase 2 items.  Phase 1 will include a team, and in Houston TX, would be about 3% of the construction cost estimate.  Phase 2 is more complicated.  Given that it is construction observation by what would probably be a professional engineer, with probably lots of overtime, you should be looking in the range of the median bill out rate for a civil engineer times 2.  Generally this would mean the median salary x 2.5-3.5 x 2..  You need an engineer with a PE and 5-10 years experience.  You can probably quarter this price by hiring someone for your staff to do all this stuff.

That being said, every project is different, and if full time observation and field engineering judgement is not required, you should be able to reduce the cost significantly, probably removing the price of the second person for overtime at least.

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Dwayne Culp, Ph.D., Ph.D.,M.ASCE
Culp Engineering, LLC
Rosenberg TX
(713)898-1977
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Why don't you take advantage of the University you graduated from. Contact the Civil Engineering department.   They should be the best source for local conditions and should know the qualified firms,   You don't want to get hung up on price alone. Or do you necessarily want  an International Consulting Engineering firm--a Small to Medium size firm, with a known track record, licensed to do business in Colorado, AND with experience in Colorado conditions similar to yours.  I personally did this sort of think over 40 years ago in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.
Dr. Culp's presentation will be useful for evaluating potential firms--well thought out.


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John Bomba P.E.,Dist.D.OE,F.ASCE
PRINCIPAL
Houston TX
(713)8061868
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-05-2019 13:30
From: Dwayne Culp
Subject: Consulting Engineer Fees

Wendy:
Phase 1 items should be much less expensive than phase 2 items.  Phase 1 will include a team, and in Houston TX, would be about 3% of the construction cost estimate.  Phase 2 is more complicated.  Given that it is construction observation by what would probably be a professional engineer, with probably lots of overtime, you should be looking in the range of the median bill out rate for a civil engineer times 2.  Generally this would mean the median salary x 2.5-3.5 x 2..  You need an engineer with a PE and 5-10 years experience.  You can probably quarter this price by hiring someone for your staff to do all this stuff.

That being said, every project is different, and if full time observation and field engineering judgement is not required, you should be able to reduce the cost significantly, probably removing the price of the second person for overtime at least.

------------------------------
Dwayne Culp, Ph.D., Ph.D.,M.ASCE
Culp Engineering, LLC
Rosenberg TX
(713)898-1977
------------------------------

Wendy,

For an $11 million project, the total engineering fee should be between 5% & 7%.  This is based largely on the USDA-Rural Development guidelines shown in their Agreement for Engineering Services: 

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David Johnson M.ASCE
Director of Civil Engineering
David Mason + Associates
St. Louis MO
(314) 534-1030
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​Assuming construction observation is full time, 13%-15% of overall estimated project costs.

I'd suggest you develop a Request for Proposal (RFP) and obtain proposals from qualified firms to promote competition and compare experience/qualifications.

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Ian Yerdon A.M.ASCE
C2AE
Syracuse NY
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Ian - that was what we were anticipating (13-15% of construction costs for Phase 2).  Do you have a reference that we could cite.  We need to justify the cost and a reference stating this as an industry standard would be helpful.

Thank you in advance!

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Wendy Weiman, P.E.
P.E.,M.ASCE
Project Engineer
Golden CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2019 08:56
From: Ian Yerdon
Subject: Consulting Engineer Fees

​Assuming construction observation is full time, 13%-15% of overall estimated project costs.

I'd suggest you develop a Request for Proposal (RFP) and obtain proposals from qualified firms to promote competition and compare experience/qualifications.

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Ian Yerdon A.M.ASCE
C2AE
Syracuse NY
------------------------------

​Our DOT here in Missouri (MoDOT) has a graph with a curve on it for the determination of reasonable consulting fees per the project total cost.  They provide the information as assistance to Local Public Agencies (LPAs) on their projects.  You can look up this information on their website as additional benchmark in your search.

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Sinan Alpaslan Aff.M.ASCE
Director of Public Works and Parks Department
City of University City
University City MO
(314)505-8560
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With the advice of ASCE General Counsel, we will be closing this thread for further comments to prevent violating the ASCE Antitrust Policy. You may review the ASCE Collaborate Code of Conduct here. If you have any questions, please contact ASCE General Counsel Tara Hoke at thoke@.... 


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Tirza Austin Aff.M.ASCE
Collaborate Coordinator
ASCE
Reston VA
(703)295-6053
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2019 10:41
From: Sinan Alpaslan
Subject: Consulting Engineer Fees

​Our DOT here in Missouri (MoDOT) has a graph with a curve on it for the determination of reasonable consulting fees per the project total cost.  They provide the information as assistance to Local Public Agencies (LPAs) on their projects.  You can look up this information on their website as additional benchmark in your search.

------------------------------
Sinan Alpaslan Aff.M.ASCE
Director of Public Works and Parks Department
City of University City
University City MO
(314)505-8560
------------------------------