Hi and thank you all for your responses.
I think the power shift should be something we all embrace. Women and men approach and solve problems differently, and unlike coupling I don't see the pairing of men and women in the workplace the same way. Maybe what we are looking for are complementary partners to enhance our business and perhaps not all of that comes by gender and sex matches. In this present age, we are focusing a lot on women, which is important, but I have never been interested in seeing the contrast of gender and sex in the workplace, but rather the complementary qualities that lead to harmonious relationships in the workplace.
Original Message:
Sent: 12-12-2020 10:15 PM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Your insights and time Oanh are appreciated for the movement of this issue from blogs, papers, and closed-door meetings out into the light of day until the issue of "Equality For All" is no longer a slogan without substance.
While perhaps I was perhaps not as clear as desired, I will respond to where my focus and intent was, is, and will continue to be.
- While the example I presented is dated and does come from the industrial sector, what is the same is the clear lack of professional action that matters as documented in the referenced NAS reports when it directly impacts money, position power, and women. And given the power men hold over their systems that continue to remain unchallenged publicly, with calls for women to remain patient. After all, "Some women have been promoted."
- Again, I have managed to mislead you and perhaps others as to "Industrial" work environs. The main message I thought was that here we are, some 109 years later, and over that time have allowed men in power to continue the discounting of women in the professional workplace, i.e., they still control the money, power, and operational decisions.
<>============================================<>
Yance, I appreciate you making the case for women to just STOP WAITING for the men to wake up and get off the dime! You initiated the development of your office culture and created a real-world diverse workforce where irrespective of gender, success is based on the initiatives of people who know that you care.
- Q. What might you do to"Raise the Temperature" for your male CEO contemporaries to take this movement on the road, always paired with a woman C-Suite officer?
By the way, a book I just purchased, "The Art of Community, Seven Principles For Belonging," by Charles H. Vogel 2016, may be useful to guide others in leading, managing, and facilitating others to create the community for their organization.
Stay Healthy Oanh, Yance!
Cheers,
Bill
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 12-12-2020 03:23 PM
From: Yance Marti
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Great answer Oanh. The question isn't the correct question for the answer that is needed. We all know that the power structure is not controlled by women. Asking how women are empowering themselves with this power imbalance misses the fact that it is the men in power that need to be especially proactive to bring about the power shift. Oanh, says, "It's a collective question that we should all consider..." Everyone, men and women together, must work to "collectively, publically, out loud... to announce their unwillingness not to take ingrained male-driven ignorant, unethical, and illegal behaviors..."
As a white, male manager I watch to make sure that none of this happens on my watch and I have taken a stand against behaviors that had no place in the office. I make sure the women that I manage have equal opportunities for advancement and that they face no type of harassment.
------------------------------
Yance Marti P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer IV
City of Milwaukee
Milwaukee WI
Original Message:
Sent: 12-12-2020 12:06 PM
From: Oanh Le
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Hi Bill,
I haven't heard a post from you in a while.
For your question:
If I would understand this correctly, the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire is an event that occurred in Manhattan, NY that killed about 150 people, mostly women, with people working in sweatshop conditions. The fire was caused by a cigarette bud and because of the lack of safety practices the owners of the company, Max Blanck and Isaac Harris, were taken to court without conviction. The fire burned for 18 minutes and for a company with about 500 people, they lost 1/5th of the employees there. (I got this short summary from the history channel's website.)
The connection that I am able to understand between this case and the question that you are presenting is in relation to the collaboration and collective endeavors of women to come together and champion a cause, and for this particular case, to call to the industrial industries attention to hospitable working conditions. In my opinion, we don't want to mistaken this idea that only women can do this. I don't want to be blindsided by gender norms and have a thinking process of "oh because we are women we can do this or oh because we are men we can do this." Men and women have come together to make a stand for changes that need to happen for good. Men come together collectively and have boycotted for better working conditions and better pay too, it is not a gender or sex issue but an issue where we are needing to meet with employers who don't provide for decent working conditions. It's historical that women do experience lesser pay and have to work harder than men but my opinion is that: these are people, and regardless of the gender or sex issue or any other issues, we are asking for hospitable and fair working conditions.
It's a collective question that we should all consider and I think the real issue that we are facing in today's social media age, is the backlash that comes from sharing an unpopular opinion with an audience, but its also a part of what this country is about. Our motto in the Supreme Court is "E. Pluribus Unum.", and it means "Out of many, one." so government participation is everyone's duty and you can't do that without voicing your cares. The role of civil engineers is not different from being "We The People", some of our service is in service for the people and it doesn't mean we are separate from being "We The People".
I hope I was able to answer to your satisfaction.
Sincerely,
Oanh Le
------------------------------
Oanh Le (She/Her)
Rochdale MA
Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2020 01:23 PM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -google
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire spurred change-as well as a massive strike!-but the worst parts of history always have a way of repeating themselves, especially when we fail to learn from our past mistakes.
As we begin to approach yet another anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, it's important to realize that the treatment of women
(garment makers 109 years ago) persists today.
Sexual Harassment of Women explores the influence of sexual harassment in academia[1] on the career advancement of women in the scientific, technical, and medical workforce.
Q. When will women across disciplines with their individual task forces see the wisdom in collaborating, cooperating, and communicating their common life challenges. . . collectively, publically, out loud... to announce their unwillingness not to take ingrained male-driven ignorant, unethical, and illegal behaviors?
https://www.nationalacademies.org/our-work/sexual-harassment-in-academia
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2020 05:44 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
"Not Done: Women Remaking America" published by PBS
Please consider viewing this video with your:
a. Family, girls/boys; relatives; friends.
b. Students, from 5th grade to university.
c. ASCE Section.
d. Regional, National, and International Conference participants.
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill
54 Minutes
[1] https://www.pbs.org/video/not-done-women-remaking-america-46xqjh/
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 06-07-2020 08:36 PM
From: Oanh Le
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Hi Dr. William Hayden,
I appreciate you taking the initiative to create a platform to discuss these issues. Many of us already know there are no closed-end answers to them and when they do occur it has consistently presented itself as a social/cultural issue. I believe that the best way to resolve this is to empower the voices of women and people who have the courage to defend and rebuttal against these types of harassment. The idea should be to prevent mild cases from progressing to severe and hostile levels and to eradicate unfair treatment of minority voices, so that everyone who comes to work can come to work free of harassment. Additional, should there be found any harassment or suspicion of these activities they are encouraged and given a process to work through to deal with the situation appropriately and in the right amount. These hinder the performances of the victims and their peers and on a subtle level, it creates a disharmonious workplace.
A1. I have no comment here at this time except that the academic place is a place to learn and anyone founded to exhibit these behaviors in the classrooms, school property, and partnerships for students where they exhibit predatory behavior towards their entrusted subordinates by the University Systems should be reprimanded as seen fit. The issue here is to avoid investing in people who know how to work around these legal systems that are kept in place to protect the general public.
A2. I do not believe that making all issues that may be considered private should be all subject to public identification or on some level, shaming. I am well not educated in this field to share my recommendations, but as a citizen and someone who has also experienced harassment, it is correct to say that litigation does not resolve the issue and when it really comes down to finding a solution for these inhospitable work-environments, the practice and strong resolve of a company's mission, culture, and values are tested.
A3. These issues arise from person to person and varies. Approaching this as a one-size fit all solution is not going to work.
Once again, thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts and creating this platform for everyone to find a common resolve.
Thank you,
------------------------------
Oanh Le Aff.M.ASCE
Suwanee GA
Original Message:
Sent: 06-06-2020 02:32 PM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
About 13 months ago, this dialogue was started, supported by a detailed 2018 study by NAS.
- Posted: 05-02-2019 06:22 PM "Please share your thoughts on the above report, and suggest specific actions individuals in private and public organizations and institutions can take to put a stop to the harassment of women in sciences and engineering."
Since that time, a few more updated versions were also posted.
The core message I took away from these reports was that the harassment of women in our engineering firms and colleges, as well as their sexual harassment in far too many instances were continuing.
In addition, we learned that in our engineering academic setting when a professor was dutifully found guilty and dismissed, within some 3 to 7 months, legally these varlets were allowed back on the campus. For this type of case, Title IX, art. 6, actually legally protects these deviant criminals.
To date, all I am aware of as to "Loud" public actions of our schools, ASCE, and other engineering society/organizations to raise the awareness of the pubic-at-large, as well as identify these culprits and change the law . . . in a presidential election year…is to distribute fliers, internal committee meetings, hold tutorials, brief notes in their newsletters and magazines, and the like.
And to my surprise, the number of posts to this thread remains quite low when compared to other issues within "ASCE Collaborate."
Q1. Please correct any comment above that I made which is not so.
Q2. What do you, I, all of us have to do to make these criminal attacks on women be publically identified and system change implemented to remove current barriers to such criminal actions?
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill
p.s. Right now we are revising ASCE's Code of Ethics.
Q3. Will this issue be unequivocally addressed?
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 06-02-2020 06:48 PM
From: Oanh Le
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Hi Mr. Hayden,
Thank you for your response. Most of the topics that I found in the search box also came from this thread. I am not entirely sure what you mean by this, but there was a response that I may have accidentally sent to your inbox earlier since I don't see it on here.
Warm regards,
Oanh
------------------------------
Oanh Le Aff.M.ASCE
Suwanee GA
Original Message:
Sent: 05-27-2020 05:48 PM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Ms. Le,
Thank you for your public, candid opinion on this horrific subject in this forum.
If you use this systems "Search" feature, and place the subject "Sexual Harassment" in the search box,
please consider a quick review of the related posts to your own.
Once you have done that, if interested for a 'chat,' let me know.
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 05-27-2020 03:16 PM
From: Oanh Le
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
Sexual Harassment, Harassment, Retaliation, Discrimination and all the likes do not get addressed enough in this industry, and in the workforce as a whole, and may be part of that is due to the lack of training from staff. I do not believe that many people in this industry, particularly a profession that is predominantly introverted, to be exceptionally well in handling human problems, and I have seen people who are pretty adept at sweeping issues under the rug.
Additionally, for many people it is a call to action regarding the neglect that women and many minorities face, but just as many lack the courage to do so. It does not help that some women also perpetuate environments that are unhealthy for employees to be successful. This issue is a matter of both men and women working together to find a realistic solution because it is an on-going issue that is going to continue. It is better to be something that is addressed and prevented then to be inherited for the next generation to resolve. This is not an issue that a responsible leader would desire to pass on to their subordinate.
Thank you for sharing this information, many people who unfortunately experience harassment and unfair workplaces end up losing their voice to speak up. It washes away the character that is industry is suppose to uphold.
------------------------------
Oanh Le Aff.M.ASCE
Suwanee GA
Original Message:
Sent: 05-02-2019 06:22 PM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Harassment of Women in Science and Engineering
A report just came out titled "Sexual Harassment of Women: Climate, Culture, and Consequences in Academic Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine" (2018) [1] Here are the summary pages you should read now:
- page 170. Findings and Conclusions.
- Page 180. Recommendations.
- page 187. RECOMMENDATION 15: "Make the entire academic community responsible for reducing and preventing sexual harassment.
All members of our nation's college campuses-students, trainees, faculty, staff, and administrators-as well as members of research and training sites should assume responsibility for promoting civil and respectful education, training, and work environments, and stepping up and confronting those whose behaviors and actions create sexually harassing environments."
[1]Source: http://nap.edu/24994 downloaded 02MAY2019
It is time to stop explaining away our individual and collective past.
Yesterday is gone for each and all of us.
Together we have today and our tomorrows.
Let us leverage them collaboratively and cooperatively.
Replace fear with courage, turn on the lights to remove the shadows, and stand tall with one another.
Yes, it is time for you, me, us to transition from empathy to proactive leadership.
Civil engineers need to be leaders in putting a stop to those behaviors, out loud, and visibly!
Please share your thoughts on the above report, and suggest specific actions individuals in private and public organizations and institutions can take to put a stop to the harassment of women in sciences and engineering.
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
------------------------------