Discussion: View Thread

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts? 

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

It is a matter of judgement.  The only way to know for sure is to follow the manufacturer's instructions.  Call tech support if needed, they can be pretty quick with an answer.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

I concur 100% with Chad's comment.

------------------------------
Kenneth Clark P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer
Oklahoma City OK
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 08:01
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

It is a matter of judgement.  The only way to know for sure is to follow the manufacturer's instructions.  Call tech support if needed, they can be pretty quick with an answer.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

Go with a mechanical concrete anchor such as a Simpson (Titan), Ram​set, etc. Not many residential carpenters qualified per minimal ACI training requirements for adhesive anchors.  Also, concrete screws have better values.  They have a reduction on new concrete installations if under full loading.   Make sure whatever you do that it is ok by your Structural Engineer of Record.  SE might require full special inspection.  With wall panels, nobody cast in anchors anymore.

MGF
Prof Eng


------------------------------
Mark Flott P.E., M.ASCE
SUBSTATN ENGR
Papillion NE
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 08:01
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

It is a matter of judgement.  The only way to know for sure is to follow the manufacturer's instructions.  Call tech support if needed, they can be pretty quick with an answer.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

It is a good idea to call the manufacturer as Chad Morison stated above. In my judgment, 7 days is good enough to allow contractor to keep working. Since you have a new Engineer assigned, let him make the decision and don't feel that you are challenged, this is just part of our work. Ultimately, he is the responsible in charge.

------------------------------
Mohamad Annan P.E., M.ASCE
Transportation Engineer
Clovis CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 08:01
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

It is a matter of judgement.  The only way to know for sure is to follow the manufacturer's instructions.  Call tech support if needed, they can be pretty quick with an answer.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

If you do decide to set the anchors prior to 21 days, I would recommend a load test of the installed anchors to show that they can develop the required strength.

------------------------------
Jason Draper P.E., M.ASCE
Burns & McDonnell
Kansas City MO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

I agree with this suggestion.

------------------------------
Michael Hershey P.E., M.ASCE
Executive Director
New York NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2019 07:41
From: Jason Draper
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

If you do decide to set the anchors prior to 21 days, I would recommend a load test of the installed anchors to show that they can develop the required strength.

------------------------------
Jason Draper P.E., M.ASCE
Burns & McDonnell
Kansas City MO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

I also agree with that and also checking with the manufacturer.
In that way the owner's engineer would have nothing more to say.

------------------------------
Napoleon De La Colina Ing., A.M.ASCE
Eng Mgr
ICM - Ingenieria Civil Montajes
LIMA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2019 07:41
From: Jason Draper
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

If you do decide to set the anchors prior to 21 days, I would recommend a load test of the installed anchors to show that they can develop the required strength.

------------------------------
Jason Draper P.E., M.ASCE
Burns & McDonnell
Kansas City MO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------

I've done heavy civil construction and have run across this situation upon occasion.  I don't know if you took concrete cylinders, but a 7 day break should be at 80% capacity if you are to determine you are on track to achieve concrete strength.  It is possible to determine the yield capacity of your L lags as the diameter of the bold and steel grade.  This is the capacity you want in your epoxy substitute.  We calculated a conic pull-out capacity of our concrete to determine required bolt depth at 125% capacity (ignore stirrups).  Lag embedment is variable with changing conic surface area so setting up the equation for capacity will yield depth.  We then chose a low creep epoxy to sustain that load.  As an added tip, the contractor *Must* blow out the holes thoroughly before applying epoxy.  That little bit of drill dust can dramatically reduce pull out capacity.  In the end, if a pull-out test is conducted (on a set-aside test bolt), you should find you have reliable full capacity for your design.
Matt

------------------------------
Matthew Socha P.E., M.ASCE
Transportation Engineer
Eureka CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2019 05:49
From: Hamilton Smith
Subject: Epoxy Set Anchor Bolts

Hi all, I am a construction manager/engineer on a residential project in the western pacific. The contractor has poured a 10"x8" concrete bond beam around the top of the exterior wall per the plans (about 150 LF total). The bond beam has #3 stirrups spaced at 4" OC. The contractor failed to set the L anchor bolts during the pour. The plans for a separate house call for the anchor bolts to be set in an existing concrete bond beam with Sikadur 32 Hi-Mod.  This epoxy is a high strength bonding agent and is moisture tolerant. My question is how long should I make the contractor wait before drilling and setting the anchor bolts?

I am aware of the 21-day rule specified for adhesives in the ACI 318. It is not clear that this applies to epoxy (as they are different).  I have read other documents that state to wait 7 days. I feel that this should be considered a small pour and the concrete cured at a pretty rapid pace with the heat on this island. I have not had any trouble on previous projects setting anchor bolts with high strength epoxy 24 to 36 hours after the pour. The owner has a new engineer on staff that is trying to challenge my position. Any assistance or guidance is much appreciated. 

Thanks,



------------------------------
Hamilton Smith P.E., M.ASCE
Austin TX
------------------------------