Discussion: View Thread

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

These photos clearly show sign of rutting. One meter from the edge corresponds to  wheel path. The cause base/subbase/subgrade failure. Needs full depth replacement.

------------------------------
Dincer Egin Ph.D., P.E., P.G., D.GE, CEG, M.ASCE
Vice President
The Louis Berger Group, Inc
Whippany NJ
(973) 407-1375
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Hello!

I appreciate for your valuable reply.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Lecturer
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2017 09:34
From: Dincer Egin
Subject: Highway Destress

These photos clearly show sign of rutting. One meter from the edge corresponds to  wheel path. The cause base/subbase/subgrade failure. Needs full depth replacement.

------------------------------
Dincer Egin Ph.D., P.E., P.G., D.GE, CEG, M.ASCE
Vice President
The Louis Berger Group, Inc
Whippany NJ
(973) 407-1375
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

It would be nice to know something about the plasticity index of the soil.  I suspect the railroad had a barrow ditch to carry off water and that it  was filled in (poorly) to construct the road.  The problem is that Mother Nature always remembers where the water ran and will continue to flow there unless intercepted and redirected.  Look for the solution to your problem "off site".  I have run into this sort of problem on numerous occasions.

------------------------------
James Anderson P.E., M.ASCE
Consulting Engineer
North Richland Hills TX
(817) 485-6408
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2017 09:34
From: Dincer Egin
Subject: Highway Destress

These photos clearly show sign of rutting. One meter from the edge corresponds to  wheel path. The cause base/subbase/subgrade failure. Needs full depth replacement.

------------------------------
Dincer Egin Ph.D., P.E., P.G., D.GE, CEG, M.ASCE
Vice President
The Louis Berger Group, Inc
Whippany NJ
(973) 407-1375
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Can the line of failure be caused by differences in the compaction of the soils beneath the railroad track and the adjacent road?  I have observed similar lines of distress in roads placed over old railroad tracks.

------------------------------
Ed Fischer M.ASCE
Hydrologist (retired)
Iowa City IA

------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Hi Kiran!

What type/size of vehicles are using this collector roadway? Also, do you have any details regarding the subgrade material and/or the structural section supporting the cobbles?

------------------------------
Benjamin Jensen P.E., M.ASCE
SENIOR TRANSP ENGINEER
Wallace Group
San Luis Obispo CA
(805)544-4011 EXT 124
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Hello!

Usually the light vehicles.

Thank YOU

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Lecturer
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2017 11:24
From: Benjamin Jensen
Subject: Highway Destress

Hi Kiran!

What type/size of vehicles are using this collector roadway? Also, do you have any details regarding the subgrade material and/or the structural section supporting the cobbles?

------------------------------
Benjamin Jensen P.E., M.ASCE
SENIOR TRANSP ENGINEER
Wallace Group
San Luis Obispo CA
(805)544-4011 EXT 124
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Evidence of a sub grade failure.  Check to see if there are underground utilities possibly a water leak.  Does your climate have freeze - thaw?  If so, I suspect water in the sub grade that froze and then thawed probably several times.  In any case, excavate along the CL of the failure + 1/2 meter either side.  Backfill with select fill and compact and replace the  cobblestones.  Be careful of both the backfill materials and the compaction.  

------------------------------
Michael Ellegood P.E., M.ASCE
Consultant
Prescott AZ
(602) 468-3142
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Hello!

I appreciate for your valuable reply. THERE IS NO SUCH UTILITIES FOUND BENEATH THE CARRIAGEWAY

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Lecturer
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2017 12:29
From: Michael Ellegood
Subject: Highway Destress

Evidence of a sub grade failure.  Check to see if there are underground utilities possibly a water leak.  Does your climate have freeze - thaw?  If so, I suspect water in the sub grade that froze and then thawed probably several times.  In any case, excavate along the CL of the failure + 1/2 meter either side.  Backfill with select fill and compact and replace the  cobblestones.  Be careful of both the backfill materials and the compaction.  

------------------------------
Michael Ellegood P.E., M.ASCE
Consultant
Prescott AZ
(602) 468-3142
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Agree with others commenting that a subgrade failure from loads applied in excess of design capability and/or subgrade penetrated by water from unidentified sources.

------------------------------
Keith Wetsell P.E., M.ASCE
General Manager
Razorback Concrete Co
West Memphis AR
(870) 735-9580
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Combination of rotational failures between both wheel paths.  You need to take out the entire lane width down to about 2 feet, depending on what a geotechnical or soils engineer onsite says, to be sure.  Is there a waterline parallel with the road?  If so and it was backfilled with muck you might be able to get away with just replacing that material, but if it was the material from the excavation itself, indications are you should replace the whole lane width anyway.  With a good mixer and some cheap Type C fly ash you might be able to go down a foot or so, all depending on what's doing that.  I'd do it in the dry season though, looks like the other side is about to go too.  You might want to do the other side while you're in there anyway.  That's what it looks like from here.  Let us know what you do and how it works out please.

------------------------------
Stephen Hemphill P.E., M.ASCE
Semi-Retired
Rio Rancho NM
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2017 12:47
From: Keith Wetsell
Subject: Highway Destress

Agree with others commenting that a subgrade failure from loads applied in excess of design capability and/or subgrade penetrated by water from unidentified sources.

------------------------------
Keith Wetsell P.E., M.ASCE
General Manager
Razorback Concrete Co
West Memphis AR
(870) 735-9580
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Kiran,

I don't have much professional experience in this area yet, but to me it looks like the effects of thermal expansion. Looking at the photos, the wheel path appears to straddle the line of cobblestone that heaved. The lack of compaction by traffic between the two wheel paths and the presence of excessive heat, that I'm sure is present in India (assuming that's where this is located), could easily cause this sort of heaving in any paved surface. I don't agree with any of the "freeze/thaw" comments, as this is obviously not that sort of region, judging by the photos. I think simply removing the displaced stone and replacing would solve the problem without much subgrade work. You may want to consider organizing the stone with larger gaps or have a fine sandy filler between the stones that will allow them to move laterally without being displaced.

------------------------------
Ryan Hendriks A.M.ASCE
Pipeline Integrity Engineer
Lake Superior Consulting
Bloomington MN
(612)328-9283
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

I agree that the failure pattern is highly suggestive of subgrade shear failure, as there are clear signs of both rutting along the wheel paths and heaving in the area between the wheel paths. I don't find the idea of heave due to thermal expansion very convincing, since it doesn't explain the rutting aspect. Another thing that is important to note is that the photographs seem to show that the problem his relatively localized. That suggests a subgrade anomaly, caused either by poor quality soils, inadequate subgrade preparation or poor subsurface drainage. Although some of the previously suggested repairs appear to be on the right track, we're all shooting in the dark unless we find out what the subgrade conditions are. I suggest doing some hand-auger borings to check subgrade soil and groundwater conditions. Then, select an appropriate repair based on the conditions encountered.

------------------------------
Fernando Souto P.E., M.ASCE
Senior Project Manager
Cadillac MI
(231)944-5145
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-22-2017 09:55
From: Ryan Hendriks
Subject: Highway Destress

Kiran,

I don't have much professional experience in this area yet, but to me it looks like the effects of thermal expansion. Looking at the photos, the wheel path appears to straddle the line of cobblestone that heaved. The lack of compaction by traffic between the two wheel paths and the presence of excessive heat, that I'm sure is present in India (assuming that's where this is located), could easily cause this sort of heaving in any paved surface. I don't agree with any of the "freeze/thaw" comments, as this is obviously not that sort of region, judging by the photos. It also is does not appear to be a subgrade failure either. I think simply removing the displaced stone and replacing would solve the problem without any subgrade work. You may want to consider organizing the stone with larger gaps or have a fine sandy filler between the stones that will allow them to move laterally without being displaced.

------------------------------
Ryan Hendriks A.M.ASCE
Pipeline Integrity Engineer
Lake Superior Consulting
Bloomington MN
(612)328-9283
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Fernando has the right answer - we can hypothesize all we want, but unless we know more about the situation we are indeed just "shooting in the dark".  How long have the cobblestones been there?  What are the soils?  Is there a leach field there?  Standing water after rain?  It appears there is some construction or material storage off to the right side of the first picture, could it be a result of heavy turning traffic there?  You say usually just light traffic, but this appears to be the result of heavier traffic.  It could be localized, but if the cobblestone was just recently placed there appears to be evidence of potential failure coming up.  Definitely subgrade though.  What's the big picture?  Can you give a Google Earth link or lat-long or something?  Interesting though.  

------------------------------
Stephen Hemphill P.E., M.ASCE
Semi-Retired
Rio Rancho NM
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-23-2017 09:41
From: Fernando Souto
Subject: Highway Destress

I agree that the failure pattern is highly suggestive of subgrade shear failure, as there are clear signs of both rutting along the wheel paths and heaving in the area between the wheel paths. I don't find the idea of heave due to thermal expansion very convincing, since it doesn't explain the rutting aspect. Another thing that is important to note is that the photographs seem to show that the problem his relatively localized. That suggests a subgrade anomaly, caused either by poor quality soils, inadequate subgrade preparation or poor subsurface drainage. Although some of the previously suggested repairs appear to be on the right track, we're all shooting in the dark unless we find out what the subgrade conditions are. I suggest doing some hand-auger borings to check subgrade soil and groundwater conditions. Then, select an appropriate repair based on the conditions encountered.

------------------------------
Fernando Souto P.E., M.ASCE
Senior Project Manager
Cadillac MI
(231)944-5145
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-22-2017 09:55
From: Ryan Hendriks
Subject: Highway Destress

Kiran,

I don't have much professional experience in this area yet, but to me it looks like the effects of thermal expansion. Looking at the photos, the wheel path appears to straddle the line of cobblestone that heaved. The lack of compaction by traffic between the two wheel paths and the presence of excessive heat, that I'm sure is present in India (assuming that's where this is located), could easily cause this sort of heaving in any paved surface. I don't agree with any of the "freeze/thaw" comments, as this is obviously not that sort of region, judging by the photos. It also is does not appear to be a subgrade failure either. I think simply removing the displaced stone and replacing would solve the problem without any subgrade work. You may want to consider organizing the stone with larger gaps or have a fine sandy filler between the stones that will allow them to move laterally without being displaced.

------------------------------
Ryan Hendriks A.M.ASCE
Pipeline Integrity Engineer
Lake Superior Consulting
Bloomington MN
(612)328-9283
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

Does this asphalt pavement deformation appear to be similar? Subgrade issues.

------------------------------
William Norman P.E., M.ASCE
Structural Engineer
Keeler-Webb Associates
Carmel IN
(317) 650-3815
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

I do not know pavement structure? How old is pavement?

Cobble stone pavement placed in flat profile. Pavement is very permeable and will saturate aggregate base, subgrade..). Drainage is big issue on this project very flat and boxed in. Subgrade failure might be the cause of 
cobble stones dislodging and rutting occurred on wheel paths and cobble stone between got shoved.

i believe site investigation remove cobble stone will reveal pavement structure (BASE, SUBGRADE), if rutting occurred in subgrade or base and may be perform DCP and I will do same thing on section that is performing very well for comparison.

Corrective action: undercut (use geotextile fabric, #57 aggregate or similar and choke it with aggregate base 1" minus or similar) and day lighted. Preventive maintenance it looks like there is no clearance issue to  raise grade, may be place 2 layers of asphalt (one leveling course and one surface course with 2% and crown in middle to shed water).

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.


------------------------------
Mourad Bouhajja P.E., M.ASCE
Marketing/Technical Manager
Oldcastle Materials
Midlothian, VA
(804) 516-3804
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------

These are the gradations to be followed in INDIA for GSB layer. Still the roads here are failing after monsoon rains and the failure is suspected to be that caused by GSB layer. I feel these gradations have a role in this failure can someone please check it and confirm

------------------------------
Rahul Sreedhar S.M.ASCE
India
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-20-2017 03:41
From: Kiran Kumar D P
Subject: Highway Destress

Hello Every One!

The Picture attached shows the distress occurred in the pavement constructed using cobble stone for the Collector Road.

As seen the distress was occurred along the  line having 1 meter from the edge of the carriageway.

Please Any one identify the cause and reason for such failure.

Thank You

------------------------------
Kiran Kumar D P Aff.M.ASCE
Bangalore
919663 742414
------------------------------