Discussion Thread

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over. 

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

Most PE renewing licensing requirements ensure that life long learning is at the fore-front. Even without a P.E. PDH or CEU requirements, unless you are turning out the same widget under the same boundary conditions, learning comes with the job.

I believe the biggest influence is the love of civil engineering or whatever the profession or career may be.

If you love what you do, the more you want to learn. While there are aspects of our jobs that can make it a little less enjoyable, five to eight hours a day in a five day work week may be your limit IF it is ALL work and you cannot escape into the joy of problem solving or analyses. Not too many people dig deeper or study a little extra for work they do not enjoy. 

It gets into that old saying of "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know!".

------------------------------
James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
Principal/Owner
POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
Yorktown, VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

Good topic. I find that natural curiosity is the key. It's why I like urban sketching and watercolor so much. If you just sit and just observe, deeper and deeper, noticing the shadows and the shade variations , the people, and the weird ways things are used, wired, or set up, then you get a lot of the "hmm, that's interesting!" moments.

When I finished my PhD it was the best and the worst of days. I had reached the top of the mountain after nearly 20 years of higher ed and looked down and was like "well what's next...I guess that's that." Metaphorically, I walked back down the hill all alone. It was great but kind of lonely. I  traveled to another state, where my advisors was, and after the presentations, discussions, and the first time a mentor called me Dr. with all seriousness. I sat in the rental car drove to the airport, sat at the gate and flew home. There were no balloons or confetti cannons lol. It's now been about 5 years since my PhD. I love teaching adjunct, I peer review for a few journals that I respect and find useful, and occasionally I will publish a research paper for fun with some of my academic friends that need it for T&P. But lifelong learning is something that seems to be a learned passion and a lonely one at that.

I tend to despise the state mandated continuing education (Florida Certified General Contractor)  because I feel it's too basic, too shallow and the same stuff every year. Seldom do I learn anything new, its my bi-annual reminder about a few things but it certainly isn't learning. It's checking the box and the state asking if I'm still alive and can pay them money :). It some point being a life long learner becomes really lonely. I often find myself in a situation where people have no idea what I'm talking about.  I'm frustrated they don't have the basics already down or can't see how some seemingly off topic thing is really related to the subject at hand. I find that I have to simplify as much as possible to get my point across as quickly as I can.

------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

I find I tend to be drawn to a certain amount of close friendships with other engineers because there is some semblance of common understanding -- it reduces some of the necessary simplification if I try to tell a friend outside the industry about something I am exited about. It kind of kills the excitement when you can tell someone has no idea what you're talking about.

I'm glad that I seem to have a good inclination toward learning. Some of my friends at work like to ponder things out loud knowing I'll either share the answer or go find the answer and let them know later. I like to say that it bothers me to not know something once I know I don't know it.
In undergrad one of my professors said to me in conversation, "Well when you're a professor that will make more sense to you." I asked why he thought I would be a professor since that wasn't in my career plans we'd already talked about. He laughed and laughed, then called another professor in who also laughed at the idea that I would never teach. The jury is still out on that one haha

I agree on the PDH credits. I don't know how you fix it, but it seems that a lot of people take the easiest credits to get (or just the ones that come with free lunch) instead of really trying to find those that will be beneficial. On the other hand there are plenty of ways to learn that won't get you any official credits. I suppose that's where personal responsibility comes into play.

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-06-2022 02:48 PM
From: Jesse Kamm
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

Good topic. I find that natural curiosity is the key. It's why I like urban sketching and watercolor so much. If you just sit and just observe, deeper and deeper, noticing the shadows and the shade variations , the people, and the weird ways things are used, wired, or set up, then you get a lot of the "hmm, that's interesting!" moments.

When I finished my PhD it was the best and the worst of days. I had reached the top of the mountain after nearly 20 years of higher ed and looked down and was like "well what's next...I guess that's that." Metaphorically, I walked back down the hill all alone. It was great but kind of lonely. I  traveled to another state, where my advisors was, and after the presentations, discussions, and the first time a mentor called me Dr. with all seriousness. I sat in the rental car drove to the airport, sat at the gate and flew home. There were no balloons or confetti cannons lol. It's now been about 5 years since my PhD. I love teaching adjunct, I peer review for a few journals that I respect and find useful, and occasionally I will publish a research paper for fun with some of my academic friends that need it for T&P. But lifelong learning is something that seems to be a learned passion and a lonely one at that.

I tend to despise the state mandated continuing education (Florida Certified General Contractor)  because I feel it's too basic, too shallow and the same stuff every year. Seldom do I learn anything new, its my bi-annual reminder about a few things but it certainly isn't learning. It's checking the box and the state asking if I'm still alive and can pay them money :). It some point being a life long learner becomes really lonely. I often find myself in a situation where people have no idea what I'm talking about.  I'm frustrated they don't have the basics already down or can't see how some seemingly off topic thing is really related to the subject at hand. I find that I have to simplify as much as possible to get my point across as quickly as I can.

------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

Hello Heidi,

As much as I agree to the lifelong learning process, where I am taking the process, and where the world is taking me on that process are in a variety of directions. I graduated with my Bachelor's degree in CE and passed the FE exam, so I am a Topic Moderator to stay up to speed. I am about to start my last semester of Statistics-Analytics for a Master's degree, so I use Wikidata, and am finishing a CodePath class on Software Engineering. And throughout that time, I have evolved my art skills into planning and editing videos, in the hope that someday, I will get paid for doing so.

Also, my parents have questioned when I will be a professor myself. For a while I have not known why they would bring that up; most professors of Statistics or related fields get a PhD first; and the education really needed for Engineering usually goes up to a Bachelor's degree. My current theory is that it's because of how devoted I always was to self-teaching, and that becoming a professor would be the next steps beyond that.

To that end, as much as the world is shifting in multiple directions right now, I still need my own clear directions myself. I am about to get my last diploma for the foreseeable future, and the first full-time job I get afterwards could be for either degree. Regardless, that was what I was preparing for all along.

------------------------------
Alexander Granato A.M.ASCE
Student
Bexley OH
granato.3@...
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-06-2022 04:31 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I find I tend to be drawn to a certain amount of close friendships with other engineers because there is some semblance of common understanding -- it reduces some of the necessary simplification if I try to tell a friend outside the industry about something I am exited about. It kind of kills the excitement when you can tell someone has no idea what you're talking about.

I'm glad that I seem to have a good inclination toward learning. Some of my friends at work like to ponder things out loud knowing I'll either share the answer or go find the answer and let them know later. I like to say that it bothers me to not know something once I know I don't know it.
In undergrad one of my professors said to me in conversation, "Well when you're a professor that will make more sense to you." I asked why he thought I would be a professor since that wasn't in my career plans we'd already talked about. He laughed and laughed, then called another professor in who also laughed at the idea that I would never teach. The jury is still out on that one haha

I agree on the PDH credits. I don't know how you fix it, but it seems that a lot of people take the easiest credits to get (or just the ones that come with free lunch) instead of really trying to find those that will be beneficial. On the other hand there are plenty of ways to learn that won't get you any official credits. I suppose that's where personal responsibility comes into play.

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK

Original Message:
Sent: 04-06-2022 02:48 PM
From: Jesse Kamm
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

Good topic. I find that natural curiosity is the key. It's why I like urban sketching and watercolor so much. If you just sit and just observe, deeper and deeper, noticing the shadows and the shade variations , the people, and the weird ways things are used, wired, or set up, then you get a lot of the "hmm, that's interesting!" moments.

When I finished my PhD it was the best and the worst of days. I had reached the top of the mountain after nearly 20 years of higher ed and looked down and was like "well what's next...I guess that's that." Metaphorically, I walked back down the hill all alone. It was great but kind of lonely. I  traveled to another state, where my advisors was, and after the presentations, discussions, and the first time a mentor called me Dr. with all seriousness. I sat in the rental car drove to the airport, sat at the gate and flew home. There were no balloons or confetti cannons lol. It's now been about 5 years since my PhD. I love teaching adjunct, I peer review for a few journals that I respect and find useful, and occasionally I will publish a research paper for fun with some of my academic friends that need it for T&P. But lifelong learning is something that seems to be a learned passion and a lonely one at that.

I tend to despise the state mandated continuing education (Florida Certified General Contractor)  because I feel it's too basic, too shallow and the same stuff every year. Seldom do I learn anything new, its my bi-annual reminder about a few things but it certainly isn't learning. It's checking the box and the state asking if I'm still alive and can pay them money :). It some point being a life long learner becomes really lonely. I often find myself in a situation where people have no idea what I'm talking about.  I'm frustrated they don't have the basics already down or can't see how some seemingly off topic thing is really related to the subject at hand. I find that I have to simplify as much as possible to get my point across as quickly as I can.

------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

It is reassuring to read both James and Jesse's comments in recognizing that "learning will be done for love of a topic, but it can also be a lonely experience". I guess this is because everyone is learning for a different journey, and after college, that journey only gets more and more unique. 

In terms of a mindset, I think you either have to be a naturally curious person, or an ambitious person who is choosing to pick up new knowledge or skills to continue growing in some form (personally, professionally, socially, financially). Or like some other people, you suffer from constant anxiety if you aren't learning or doing something new. This is its own issue, where you become a "serial learner" who spreads themselves too thin and never masters anything. 

I'd also agree that the required Continuing Education requirements make sense in spirit, but also easily get rendered unhelpful in application.

------------------------------
Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

The need to love what you do when you have to spend eight (8) or more hours a day doing for decades is the message I passed to family and friends. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to invest any more than the mandatory time in something they are simply okay or like doing. I am curious as to whether one can find someone that thinks about optimizing or refining a process they do not enjoy.

------------------------------
James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
Principal/Owner
POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
Yorktown, VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-11-2022 09:25 AM
From: Christopher Seigel
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

It is reassuring to read both James and Jesse's comments in recognizing that "learning will be done for love of a topic, but it can also be a lonely experience". I guess this is because everyone is learning for a different journey, and after college, that journey only gets more and more unique.

In terms of a mindset, I think you either have to be a naturally curious person, or an ambitious person who is choosing to pick up new knowledge or skills to continue growing in some form (personally, professionally, socially, financially). Or like some other people, you suffer from constant anxiety if you aren't learning or doing something new. This is its own issue, where you become a "serial learner" who spreads themselves too thin and never masters anything.

I'd also agree that the required Continuing Education requirements make sense in spirit, but also easily get rendered unhelpful in application.

------------------------------
Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

I'd be willing to claim that there are certain cases where people devote time to optimizing or refining a process specifically because they dislike the process and wish to resolve it. I was able to work on simplifying a task last year due to how tedious and non-engineering related the task was. I did it once or twice, found that it was annoying, and found that getting faster at it didn't make me hate it any less. When we ended up having time and budget available, I was able to submit the idea for a way to improve the process and get the support we needed from other staff members to write a script that handled this part of the task. 

I think a lot of optimization is fueled by a dislike of the status quo. That being said, I understand and fully agree with the bigger picture you paint on this topic about the importance of liking what you do.

------------------------------
Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 03:11 PM
From: James Williams
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

The need to love what you do when you have to spend eight (8) or more hours a day doing for decades is the message I passed to family and friends. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to invest any more than the mandatory time in something they are simply okay or like doing. I am curious as to whether one can find someone that thinks about optimizing or refining a process they do not enjoy.

------------------------------
James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
Principal/Owner
POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
Yorktown, VA

Original Message:
Sent: 04-11-2022 09:25 AM
From: Christopher Seigel
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

It is reassuring to read both James and Jesse's comments in recognizing that "learning will be done for love of a topic, but it can also be a lonely experience". I guess this is because everyone is learning for a different journey, and after college, that journey only gets more and more unique.

In terms of a mindset, I think you either have to be a naturally curious person, or an ambitious person who is choosing to pick up new knowledge or skills to continue growing in some form (personally, professionally, socially, financially). Or like some other people, you suffer from constant anxiety if you aren't learning or doing something new. This is its own issue, where you become a "serial learner" who spreads themselves too thin and never masters anything.

I'd also agree that the required Continuing Education requirements make sense in spirit, but also easily get rendered unhelpful in application.

------------------------------
Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

Thanks for this chat Heidi!

Q. "What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?"

A. Given todays online access to libraries, consider the following process:
1. Based on the path you wish to walk down as you mature in your engineering career(s),
   ask "What educational voids for relationships and life knowledge  might I have, given that engineering programs do not normally include?
2. Select no more than 3 texts from your library on dimensions of the same topic.
3. Commit at least 50 min a day to reading.
4. Make a reference list of the most interesting.
5. Move on to the next non-engineering topic(s).
Cheers,
Bill
p.s. At the tender age of 6, my mom would walk us to the library. Mom said
"Billy, when you read, your eyes take you to a place your feet may never go."

------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 12:50 PM
From: Christopher Seigel
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I'd be willing to claim that there are certain cases where people devote time to optimizing or refining a process specifically because they dislike the process and wish to resolve it. I was able to work on simplifying a task last year due to how tedious and non-engineering related the task was. I did it once or twice, found that it was annoying, and found that getting faster at it didn't make me hate it any less. When we ended up having time and budget available, I was able to submit the idea for a way to improve the process and get the support we needed from other staff members to write a script that handled this part of the task.

I think a lot of optimization is fueled by a dislike of the status quo. That being said, I understand and fully agree with the bigger picture you paint on this topic about the importance of liking what you do.

------------------------------
Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 03:11 PM
From: James Williams
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

The need to love what you do when you have to spend eight (8) or more hours a day doing for decades is the message I passed to family and friends. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to invest any more than the mandatory time in something they are simply okay or like doing. I am curious as to whether one can find someone that thinks about optimizing or refining a process they do not enjoy.

------------------------------
James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
Principal/Owner
POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
Yorktown, VA

Original Message:
Sent: 04-11-2022 09:25 AM
From: Christopher Seigel
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

It is reassuring to read both James and Jesse's comments in recognizing that "learning will be done for love of a topic, but it can also be a lonely experience". I guess this is because everyone is learning for a different journey, and after college, that journey only gets more and more unique.

In terms of a mindset, I think you either have to be a naturally curious person, or an ambitious person who is choosing to pick up new knowledge or skills to continue growing in some form (personally, professionally, socially, financially). Or like some other people, you suffer from constant anxiety if you aren't learning or doing something new. This is its own issue, where you become a "serial learner" who spreads themselves too thin and never masters anything.

I'd also agree that the required Continuing Education requirements make sense in spirit, but also easily get rendered unhelpful in application.

------------------------------
Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------

Heidi,

I used to rely on my past experiences to dictate what I should learn more about.  When I feel like I had to "learn on the fly," I tend to do some research afterwards to hopefully be more knowledgeable the next time around.  I also relied on other people's experiences, in hopes that I would not repeat their mistakes.  Early in my career, this was extremely helpful.

In my current role, I find myself thinking about the future.  "What trends are coming" and "what do I need to know more about?"  I still rely on past experiences to direct my efforts, but I feel like it is my responsibility to be "ready."  Some things that I have learned are not directly related to design.  The design and analysis behind how something works or "comes together" is necessary, but I really enjoy discussing with our field teams to learn the specific challenges and efficiencies to actually creating the design.  I usually find myself working my designs around that.

------------------------------
Jefferson Thao P.E., M.ASCE
Engineering Manager
Thornton CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2022 03:20 PM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Lifelong Learning as Engineers

I would love to start a conversation on lifelong learning as engineers. I think we would all agree that it is important, but what can we do to ensure that learning isn't left on the back burner?

I recently finished my Masters degree and may be done with formal schooling, but I know that my learning as a civil engineer is far from over.

What tips or advice do you have to keep the mindset of a lifelong learner in your career?

------------------------------
Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------