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Getting Help with Homework Problems

  • 1.  Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 06-28-2021 02:21 PM

    When students in engineering majors needed help with homework problems, going to office hours to meet with professors was one of the few ways to catch up to the class. Now, with the internet expanding with solution, websites like Chegg and CourseHero seem to be precisely what students need to complete the homework look through the steps.

    What other resources did you know you had and utilized not just to finish homework, but to review quizzes and exams?



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    Alexander Granato A.M.ASCE
    Student
    Bexley OH
    granato.3@...
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  • 2.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-02-2021 04:14 PM
    When I was in college, I made several design spreadsheets to help me with my homework assignments, and to check team members designs on group assignments. This really allowed me to "optimize" designs before submitting assignments. 

    Most of my professors required that all calculations for assignments be hand written. Some classes also required the students to show an iterative design process, where the student had to first select design parameters (essentially guess), work through the design, and then re-design any aspects that didn't satisfy code requirements. I always first made a design spreadsheet, played with the input variables until I reached a design that would satisfy all of the code requirements. Then I would hand write the assignment for submittal. This saved me a lot of time and headache compared to some of my classmates. 

    Spreadsheets could also be a great way to review quizzes and exams, especially if they are submitted electronically. 

    Hope that helps!

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    Doug Cantrell P.E., M.ASCE
    Professional Engineer
    Durham NC
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-03-2021 09:23 AM
    Sites like Chegg and CourseHero are not resources, they are answer keys.  And like answer keys in the days before the internet, they are unethical to use them for graded assignments.   Sadly, students who have been doing this since high school, or earlier, have come to think that it's OK.   Professors have thrown up their hands because there really is little anyone can do to stop it.  Students feel they are using these sites to help them learn, but they are not.  Maybe a few actually use it to help them learn, but most students hit the first roadblock in solving a problem, and instead of referring to the notes, or the textbook, they find the solution online. So they never learn how to actually solve the problem.   Every year in my classes, I plot homework grades versus test scores.  It's always a horizontal line, with students getting +95% on their homework, yet a significant number failing miserably on the exams.   I have given the exact problems on an exam as was given on homework assignment, and scores of students who got 100% on the homework assignment couldn't even start the problem on the exam.   It's a shame that students don't go to their professors or TAs, whose job it is to help them solve it for themselves, rather than telling them the answer.   Unfortunately, it's too easy and convenient to go online.

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    Timothy Murphy P.E., M.ASCE
    Professor
    Trine University
    Angola IN
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-03-2021 06:07 PM
    Re: "Professors have thrown up their hands because there really is little anyone can do to stop it."

    First, I acknowledge the frustration being exhibited.

    Next, "It ain't over until I/you/we quit!

    Finally, I am very confident that if we formed a group of educators and students,

    we are . . . collectively... capable of re-engineering what we do and how we do it to assure

    students are provided with a real-world shot at the results of planned, diligent classwork.

    Stay Healthy!

    Cheers,

    Bill

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    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 10:25 AM
    I think this is part of the reason that many of my professional school professors did not use problems from a book. Students don't even have the temptation of an easy way out when the professor wrote the assignment. I think that also reduced the number of students working in isolation. Nearly everyone at least paired off to study and work together. That way, they could compare their work before turning it in and try to find any mistakes. I think there was some extra value in that process of checking each other's work since it is a similar mindset to the QC process in many Civil projects.

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    Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
    Tulsa, OK
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 11:20 AM
    I wish it was that simple Heidi.  I once spent an entire summer preparing my own problems for a class, so I didn't have to use problems from the book.   Students just took pictures of the problems, uploaded them to Chegg, and the Chegg 'tutors' solved them and posted the answers.   Students have even been caught doing this during exams.   It was extremely frustrating.  But what is more frustrating is that many/most students don't think using these sites for homework is cheating.   I agree that students working together is a great way to learn and does mimic the QC process.   Sometimes that doesn't work well if a student isn't technically copying from another student, but letting his/her student partner do all the problem solving, but it's still better than using Chegg.   I wish more students understood that the goal of homework isn't getting the right answer, but learning how to problem-solve.  I preach it all the time.  I think some students hear me, but too many others are probably thinking "OK Boomer"

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    Timothy Murphy P.E., M.ASCE
    Professor
    Trine University
    Angola IN
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 12:54 PM
    I hope any student caught cheating like that in an exam was expelled. There's no excuse for that at all.
    As a TA I found it very disheartening the cheating by some students even in incredibly small assignments. One assignment just required them to look answers up on the Career Services page. I had 3 students turn in identical assignments except they changed the fonts. When confronted, they tried to say since they got all the answers right of course they matched. I told them that cheating and then lying about it was their last warning. Their answers had the exact same grammar and punctuation mistakes. The only difference was the fonts. I wanted to report it, but the professor said this would serve as their warning. I still stand by the fact that the lying about it should have made it go on their record so that their next professors would know they'd already been warned. 
    So many students are more concerned about grades than learning. That's a mindset problem.

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    Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
    Tulsa, OK
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 12:53 PM
    This might be a little off topic from the original question, but it is something that I wanted to mention after reading Timothy's response below.

    It sounds like not much has changed since I was in college over 10 years ago. There were students getting 100% scores on homework, but failing grades on tests. It seems like class grades should be a function of "competency" as grades are often used by employers, etc. to gauge a student's knowledge on the subject. And, homework shouldn't be used to inflate someone to a passing grade if they are constantly failing the tests. Yet, this seems to be the case many times. I can't even count how many "A students" were hardworking and received 100% on homework and extra credit, but they definitely weren't knowledgeable in the subject matter.

    Anyhow, back to the original question of learning resources. I'm a firm believer in getting help from another human being when you are having issues. This could be the professor as mentioned, or it could be the "smart kids" in the class. I think developing a group of friends in college that can help you with homework is very important. This not only helps with the homework, but also social skills and networking. This may be a bit tough for engineers, as most are introverted. I thought it was helpful when professors forced students to work together in groups and meet others in the class. I also occasionally had professors throw "study sessions" where they would order a bunch of pizza and soda after hours (5pm+) and invite students to the classroom to work on homework. In short, I think developing a group of friends who can help is the best solution.

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    Robert Schiermeyer P.E., M.ASCE
    Senior Project Manager
    Keller North America, Inc.
    Commerce City CO
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 10:27 AM
    I think one of the most valuable resources is your group of friends from class. Chances are, out of a group of 4 to 8 students, you won't struggle with the same concepts. My group of friends and I pushed each other to be better, helped one another, and were a sort of accountability group to stay on top of our studies. 

    Here's my top dos and donts for these groups: 
    - Don't let anyone copy your work or ask to copy anyone else's work.
    - Don't group up with people that you find more distracting than beneficial.
    - Do take the time to genuinely explain topics you understand to those that don't get it yet.
    - Do graciously accept explanations from others when you need help. 

    I found in our group that I did best to study for a couple hours alone and then get together with the group to help one another study further. That way I had a clear idea of where I felt good and where I might need more reinforcement. 

    I think there are some real benefits from this kind of collaboration. 
    - Chances are, your future job will require collaboration, humility, confidence, and the ability to teach/mentor others. All of that can be practiced in a study group. 
    - There's never any harm in helping another engineer master a concept. It can be a service to the people impacted by their future work. If nothing else, explaining it to them will reinforce your own understanding. 
    - You build a good rapport with peers that may help you land a job or suggest a new hire someday. 

    Regarding resources like Chegg -- they should be used sparingly and only as a means to check your work or do practice problems. I used it in a couple general engineering courses like Thermodynamics to check my answers so I could rework what was incorrect. To use it while doing the whole assignment treads into an ethical territory that is not in line with university policies or the ethics of professional societies. In a way, it's really no different than if you paid someone to let you copy their homework if you use it that way. So, while it can be a beneficial tool, it should be used in a way that is ethically responsible.

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    Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
    Tulsa, OK
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 12:44 PM
    Heidi,
    This is an excellent post about how to do homework with a group.   Try first on your own, then discuss to either check answers or get past difficult portions.   And discussion of concepts between colleagues helps everyone.   And this discussion just doesn't help the students who don't understand the problems.  Every teacher will always say that you learn far more trying to teach something than you learn as a student.  Trying to explain a concept is a far more effective way to understand complex ideas than having these ideas explained to you.

    But I disagree about your assessment about using Chegg. I have heard this from students who are ethical but don't understand why doing this is unethical.   I think your opinion about using Chegg just to check your answers is fine if homework isn't a graded element of the course.   However, if homework is a graded element, you are being evaluated on your ability to solve that problem.  If you are submitting the work that you got from a solution, you are submitting someone else's work as your own.  I know it seems a grey area because how is it different than checking your work with another student?  The difference is that you don't know if the other student is correct.  In this case, you are collaboratively working together to submit answers you think are correct.    If you change your answer after checking the correct answer on Chegg, it's really not different than erasing your work and copying from an answer key, which has always been unethical.    In my opinion, the only ethical way to use sites like Chegg is to do extra problems as you suggested or to check the solution after the problem was graded and you can learn why you didn't get full credit.  

    The other frustration, as a professor, is that when students are all getting 100% on their homework, you never get the sense about what things students are struggling with.  Homework is a feedback mechanism for us, and if students are struggling on an assignment, you can revisit a topic before the exam.

    I wish homework wasn't graded, so there weren't these ethical issues.  But if it's not graded most students will not prioritize it and many just won't do it.

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    Timothy Murphy P.E., M.ASCE
    Professor
    Trine University
    Angola IN
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-05-2021 05:12 PM
    I pretty much agree with what you're saying about Chegg on graded assignments. My study buddy and I would usually look at the "odd" solutions, similar to classes where there was a printed solutions manual. The "evens" were the problems in the assignments. We would sometimes check just the answers (not the solutions) so we'd know what we needed to rework. This was an effective way to study for me which was reflected in my exam scores. 

    The biggest reason I checked mine was because I found that if I did an entire assignment incorrectly, I was much more likely to get to the exam and not recall which way was correct. So for me, checking at the beginning (with other students, solutions manuals, a TA, or the professor) ensured I didn't reinforce incorrect methods in my mind.

    I'd say a vast majority of students abused the resource to just get good grades. I did find it telling when Chegg had a solution wrong. Our professor immediately knew who had used Chegg or copied from someone that used it. I'd checked my work multiple times and didn't find a mistake, so I left my work as it was even though the answer didn't match. I figured the TA would mark it up when they graded it if it was wrong.

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    Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
    Tulsa, OK
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-10-2021 10:00 AM
    Based on what I have observed among students as also I have experienced, the homework is doubled compared to the face to face class set up that makes them hard to cope with time pressure and fast synchronization of the lessons. With this it's hard to absorb the lessons, while resulting to just complying more than trying to find the way to a correct answer and learn. The time of studying is also distracted by many factors when you're at home, and especially when they have work too and sometimes the time is not enough for the overloads of overall subjects. From that I hope the professor can be more understanding and ask their students how they can improve their teachings too, for example using a pen and not a mouse to write the solutions so it can be neatly understandable in virtual set up, and preparing the students a manual of solving (references of books used in lessons or its PowerPoint, flash cards of formulas) to read before proceeding to an online class (this really helps), and give more difficult examples so they can practice its ways that is possible to appear in the exams. 
    There are many things that affects our learning in online set up more than the school set up, and for some it may seem easier but students have different environments. I appreciate the face to face set up and looking forward for it. And it's a must especially when engineering students need actual performance in laboratories or computer software that already installed in the school computers so that they can learn it effectively. School set up must be required in such engineering courses, medical courses, IT's, etc, as higher education see these courses needed to go back in face to face set up too. But because of the pandemic students must endure it but I hope there will be improvements at least for a virtual set up by giving a survey to the students. 


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    Llala Chrishaye Ocampo S.M.ASCE
    Student
    City of General Trias Cavite
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-12-2021 09:40 AM
    It's all well and good to work in groups, but for the top students, waiting for others to get to their assignments, especially in schools with a large portion of working students, this is not practical, even though it helps. As for Chegg, it's so filled with wrong answers that I wouldn't rate it so highly.

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    Tsee Lee S.M.ASCE
    New York NY
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-12-2021 11:11 AM
    I was a top student and nearly always the first to complete assignments in my group, but I was also able to encourage others to not procrastinate their work so we could have time to review and discuss. For example, I once was nearly finished with a final project before everyone else started it, but helping others with their questions as they got stuck working on it later meant I fully mastered basically all the concepts before the final exam. Since I was ahead, that was one of the occasions where I met with the professor when I wasn't sure how to proceed.

    I will say that my group did not have a lot of people that worked many hours at jobs during the school semesters. Most worked summer and/or winter break but not during the semesters except for some on campus jobs like being TAs.

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    Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
    Tulsa, OK
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    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Getting Help with Homework Problems

    Posted 07-19-2021 10:10 PM
    Before having internet, when I was an engineering student ('91 -'96) there were also some ways to support us as students in the learning process:
    - Books (from recognized publishers) with the typical name "100 solved problems of ...".
    - Ask the upper-grade students to explain some concepts to us.
    - Study in a group, where the most advanced student in the group explained concepts or procedures to their classmates.
    Now the internet offers more aids similar to the books with "100 problems", I agree that these tools should be used with the greatest possible ethics, especially if any of the problems included there is exactly the same as the homework (I even remember during an exam of Mechanics of the Continuous Medium subject for graduates having identified that one of the problems proposed in the exam was practically the same as the one contained in the book Theory of Elasticity by Timoshenko and Goodier, 3rd edition, Mc Graw Hill) however, it is difficult (I also say this as a professor teaching solids mechanics at the undergraduate level from 2002 to 2004) "to keep discovering the wheel" to expose to the students problems that have never been raised before and that they cannot just "copy and paste" the solutions to present their homeworks, perhaps this situation has its problems in the focus of the class if it gives students a grade for performing their homeworks in each case. It helps to make students understand that homework is part of a training process and that perhaps the right thing to do is to gather as much information as possible until they understand the concepts to be addressed.
    On the other hand, I consider that the best way to help yourself in your studies is to try to become that most advanced student in the class, to be able to explain to your classmates the concepts that are being studied, I say this because although it is not easy, it requires a lot of concentration to understand first and then find a way to explain it to different people and surely each one has their own way of understanding things.
    As a proffesor I consider that there are some subjects, especially those related to applied engineering (although I consider that with all subjects it is possible) where other methods of knowledge transmission can be used that may be more fruitful than the presentation of concepts unilaterally by the professor. For example, generate debate or contribution of ideas / points of view on the subject, where later the teacher finally aligns the correct concept / procedure / approach.
    We (students and proffesors) must to remember/know that knowledge is easier to gain doing/discossing than reading.

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    Horacio Galicia-Gaona Ing., S.E., M.ASCE
    Morelia
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    Original Message


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