Environment, Coasts, Oceans, & Infrastructure

Cranston residents outraged over Johnston wind turbine project

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Cranston residents outraged over Johnston wind turbine project It's a project in Johnston that some Cranston residents aren't happy about. Several wind turbines now tower over an area near the landfill and a section of homes in Western Cranston, including Alpine Estates. View this on WJAR >

RI is dealing with an uncertain energy future.  A proposed natural gas plant in the forest has been stuck in red tape, only for another to be proposed within an urban neighborhood.  Wind turbines are being built on the landfill (hooray!), but are now visible form a nearby neighborhood.  The landfill and turbines are in Johnston and the neighborhood is in Cranston.

So NIMBY typically follows concerns about noise/light/air/water pollution.  With clean energy, we have a new question of "is it an eyesore to its surroundings?"  Perhaps beauty is in the eye of the beholder... how do we define an eyesore?  Unfortunately, I believe it will be defined in an economic way... the home values in this neighborhood will likely decrease... so that is a measurable impact of eyesore.  What is the responsibility of the homeowner to stay informed?  What is the city's responsibility to notify homeowners of neighboring developments?  The residents outrage at the council meeting is happening after construction... it's too late.  

As we are engineers and not architects and typically find such structures fascinating, how do we address and quantify the "looks" of our project in within a given environment?

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Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

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Yeah, down here in Austin we had folks objecting to a new 138KV line near there properties because it "didn't look good."  When informed that the line was needed for reliability to other people, the charitable answer was, "Tough on them.  I don't need it so I'm against it."

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James Justin Mercier, P.E.
Life Member ASCE
Sr. Life Member IEEE
Austin Texas
512-442-4016
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Thanks, Chad, for the interesting thread.

I certainly hear about this issue a lot with respect to stormwater infrastructure, particularly with respect to native vegetation and water quality ponds.

Native vegetation tends to have a more "wild" or "unkept" appearance that some residents dislike in lieu of a well-manicured lawn. But there are many benefits that native species bring with respect to resiliency and habitat restoration, particularly in urban settings.
As for ponds, they are often marketed as "natural" water features to adjacent homeowners who later discover that these ponds are designed to fill up with nutrients, often resulting in duckweed, algae, odors, and other typical characteristics of eutrophic systems.

I, personally, find wind turbines to be very visually appealing, but maybe that's just me. I think a big part of the issue is making sure that stakeholders understand how these systems work and why they matter (perhaps what they contribute to the local economy/ecosystem), but then again there will always be differing opinions and pushback.

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Vinicius Taguchi S.M.ASCE
Ph.D. Student
Minneapolis MN
taguc006@...
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This discussion brings to mind a Civil Engineer I worked with who put their house up for sale before a nearby traffic light could be installed in lieu of an all-way stop. The reason: The lights at night would be an eyesore and reduce the value of their house. The fact that it would reduce the commute time home in the evening wouldn't affect the property value.

The article reminds me of people who build a new house in an older neighborhood to experience the charm and then get upset when the neighbors do the same. Renewable energy will continue to have this uphill battle.

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Richard Ruchhoeft P.E., M.ASCE
PROJECT MANAGER
Port of Houston Authority
Houston TX
(713)301-0897
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As engineers, our first ethical responsibility is to protect the health and welfare of the public. Consider how that may apply to financial health. In a country where 71% of people do not have enough saved for retirement, the value of your home, is often the largest asset most people have. While to an engineer who doesn't live in this community it's just an "eyesore", there are very real financial consequences. A loss of home values (even if we're talking 10k or less) could have a substantial impact depending on your financial situation or how close you are to retirement. We need to be careful not to over-simplify the issue to say it's simply an "eyesore" or a "not in my backyard" issue. The true lesson here is the importance of community buy-in prior to the project. 

We also need to be aware of our own positive bias towards green energy in general which the general public may not share - we are fascinated and educated in this technology (as opposed to feeling threatened by it) while simultaneously much more likely to be comfortable financially than most in this country. We are in a unique position to educate if we so choose.  

Not everyone is going to agree with a project, but there stands a much better likelihood of success if the community discussion starts with "how do we create sustainable energy here/be a model for the country so we leave our children with a better world?" versus "we're going to put a wind turbine in front of your house, if you don't like it it's too late to change it." The tone of the article indicates the latter was the case here. We don't know if that is actually what happened, but that doesn't really matter for reasons I'll explain below.

I see the irony that as engineers, we often complain that the public doesn't appreciate or understand what we do. This does go both ways. When the public or media perceives that we aren't listening (regardless if that is factually true or not), this does not help our cause. Yes, we can say all day that we aren't architects or the developers responsible for a project, but that's not necessarily how the public perceives it. And, until we take responsibility for how we are perceived by non-engineers - and take steps to change it if it's incorrect - we will continue to be undervalued.

To be clear, I am a proponent of sustainable energy. But, I can also empathize with the concerns on the other side. I also understand (and have lived) that when an engineer is working to meet a deadline under a less-than-optimal fee, it is extremely tempting to ignore the bigger-picture implications of public perception as "not my problem" or "not in my scope." The reality is that sustainability will advance much more quickly with public support, and being able to speak the language of the communities where these projects will be installed and gain buy-in is a big part of obtaining that public support.     

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Stephanie Slocum P.E., M.ASCE
Founder
Engineers Rising LLC
www.engineersrising.com
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Financial health and welfare of people is a great term to identify the possible economic impact of a project, thanks!

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Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI
(401)231-4870 EXT 2207
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-20-2018 11:59
From: Stephanie Slocum
Subject: NIMBY - There Goes the Neighborhood

As engineers, our first ethical responsibility is to protect the health and welfare of the public. Consider how that may apply to financial health. In a country where 71% of people do not have enough saved for retirement, the value of your home, is often the largest asset most people have. While to an engineer who doesn't live in this community it's just an "eyesore", there are very real financial consequences. A loss of home values (even if we're talking 10k or less) could have a substantial impact depending on your financial situation or how close you are to retirement. We need to be careful not to over-simplify the issue to say it's simply an "eyesore" or a "not in my backyard" issue. The true lesson here is the importance of community buy-in prior to the project.

We also need to be aware of our own positive bias towards green energy in general which the general public may not share - we are fascinated and educated in this technology (as opposed to feeling threatened by it) while simultaneously much more likely to be comfortable financially than most in this country. We are in a unique position to educate if we so choose.

Not everyone is going to agree with a project, but there stands a much better likelihood of success if the community discussion starts with "how do we create sustainable energy here/be a model for the country so we leave our children with a better world?" versus "we're going to put a wind turbine in front of your house, if you don't like it it's too late to change it." The tone of the article indicates the latter was the case here. We don't know if that is actually what happened, but that doesn't really matter for reasons I'll explain below.

I see the irony that as engineers, we often complain that the public doesn't appreciate or understand what we do. This does go both ways. When the public or media perceives that we aren't listening (regardless if that is factually true or not), this does not help our cause. Yes, we can say all day that we aren't architects or the developers responsible for a project, but that's not necessarily how the public perceives it. And, until we take responsibility for how we are perceived by non-engineers - and take steps to change it if it's incorrect - we will continue to be undervalued.

To be clear, I am a proponent of sustainable energy. But, I can also empathize with the concerns on the other side. I also understand (and have lived) that when an engineer is working to meet a deadline under a less-than-optimal fee, it is extremely tempting to ignore the bigger-picture implications of public perception as "not my problem" or "not in my scope." The reality is that sustainability will advance much more quickly with public support, and being able to speak the language of the communities where these projects will be installed and gain buy-in is a big part of obtaining that public support.     

------------------------------
Stephanie Slocum P.E., M.ASCE
Founder
Engineers Rising LLC
www.engineersrising.com
------------------------------