Hello ASCE,

I have a question,
Has anyone ever worked on rehabilitation of steel lined tunnels in Subways?

Our subway tunnels are corroding, and we cannot replace them as it is cost prohibitive. Methods such as plate welding or shotcrete are being considered. Does anyone have any lessons that can be learned? We just want to know what kind of challenges we can expect.

Thank you,
Bryce

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Bryce Bundens,
Civil/Environmental Engineering major
Geography minor
Calvin University

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Even if you know the type of steel used to construct the tunnel, you would need to test its composition and determine its weldability.  Steel that is about 100 years old can have varying quality as standards were not adopted industry-wide until the 1960's.  Defects or inclusions in the steel may be present and undermined the integrity of the weld.  Welding plates would not ensure protection against further corrosion.  I like the shotcrete idea.

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Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI
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Thank you Chad! That is incredibly helpful info. Have you ever worked on a specific project involving steel rehabilitation, or could you point me toward any engineering reports online?

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Bryce Bundens S.M.ASCE
Devon PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 07:46 AM
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Even if you know the type of steel used to construct the tunnel, you would need to test its composition and determine its weldability.  Steel that is about 100 years old can have varying quality as standards were not adopted industry-wide until the 1960's.  Defects or inclusions in the steel may be present and undermined the integrity of the weld.  Welding plates would not ensure protection against further corrosion.  I like the shotcrete idea.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI
------------------------------

Yes, I am currently working on a historic building in DC.  I am also involved with the Philadelphia Museum of Art renovation.  AISC Design Guide 15 - Rehabilitation and Retrofit Guide is a good starting point.  You can also learn a lot about rivets on Youtube, it is a lost art.  

I attended a presentation from Wiss, Janney, Elstner Associates, Inc. Articles | WJE.  They appear to have a lot of resources available on their website
Here is a link to a presentation you might find helpful.

Vintage Building Renovations: How to Avoid Costly Pitfalls Due to "Dirty" Steel | Webinars | WJE


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Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 08:53 AM
From: Bryce Bundens
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Thank you Chad! That is incredibly helpful info. Have you ever worked on a specific project involving steel rehabilitation, or could you point me toward any engineering reports online?

------------------------------
Bryce Bundens S.M.ASCE
Devon PA
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 07:46 AM
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Even if you know the type of steel used to construct the tunnel, you would need to test its composition and determine its weldability.  Steel that is about 100 years old can have varying quality as standards were not adopted industry-wide until the 1960's.  Defects or inclusions in the steel may be present and undermined the integrity of the weld.  Welding plates would not ensure protection against further corrosion.  I like the shotcrete idea.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

Thank you! Taking a look at these helpful resources. I will include what I learn here in my preliminary report.

------------------------------
Bryce Bundens S.M.ASCE
Devon PA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 09:39 AM
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Yes, I am currently working on a historic building in DC.  I am also involved with the Philadelphia Museum of Art renovation.  AISC Design Guide 15 - Rehabilitation and Retrofit Guide is a good starting point.  You can also learn a lot about rivets on Youtube, it is a lost art.

I attended a presentation from Wiss, Janney, Elstner Associates, Inc. Articles | WJE.  They appear to have a lot of resources available on their website
Here is a link to a presentation you might find helpful.

Vintage Building Renovations: How to Avoid Costly Pitfalls Due to "Dirty" Steel | Webinars | WJE


------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 08:53 AM
From: Bryce Bundens
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Thank you Chad! That is incredibly helpful info. Have you ever worked on a specific project involving steel rehabilitation, or could you point me toward any engineering reports online?

------------------------------
Bryce Bundens S.M.ASCE
Devon PA


Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 07:46 AM
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Even if you know the type of steel used to construct the tunnel, you would need to test its composition and determine its weldability.  Steel that is about 100 years old can have varying quality as standards were not adopted industry-wide until the 1960's.  Defects or inclusions in the steel may be present and undermined the integrity of the weld.  Welding plates would not ensure protection against further corrosion.  I like the shotcrete idea.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

Dear Bryce,

With reference your concern/query its completely an advance state-of-the art in to consideration. Earlier / last year I have used & utilise the free report documents from authentic official/ Institute mail ID from the below site for your kind reference. 

https://www.enr.com/unlimited?M1XXNEN&oly_enc_id=2393B6381467I8G

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With warm regards,
Narsimha Poloju
President | ASCE India Section Southern Region
P.Eng.,S.E, M.GI, M.ASCE, M.AEI, M.SEI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 08:53 AM
From: Bryce Bundens
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Thank you Chad! That is incredibly helpful info. Have you ever worked on a specific project involving steel rehabilitation, or could you point me toward any engineering reports online?

------------------------------
Bryce Bundens S.M.ASCE
Devon PA
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2021 07:46 AM
From: Chad Morrison
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Even if you know the type of steel used to construct the tunnel, you would need to test its composition and determine its weldability.  Steel that is about 100 years old can have varying quality as standards were not adopted industry-wide until the 1960's.  Defects or inclusions in the steel may be present and undermined the integrity of the weld.  Welding plates would not ensure protection against further corrosion.  I like the shotcrete idea.

------------------------------
Chad Morrison P.E., M.ASCE
Professional Engineer
Greenville RI

Bryce,   You may want to check out Warren Epoxy products, which can provide a structural component along with protecting from future deteriation.   The epoxy has zero VOC's so it would be safe to apply.   

www.warrenenviro.com

A&W Maintenance would be the certified applicator.
Max Silva 
msilva@...
https://www.awmain.com/

Good luck!
Chip Karo, PE

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Chip Karo P.E., M.ASCE
Project Manager
Hoschton GA
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Hi Bryce.
Many decades ago I had the pleasure of working during construction in:
1. A drill, shot, muck rock tunnel,

2. A shield-driven, compressed air, cast-iron ringed tunnel, and,

3. An open-cut, shield, install, cover tunnel.

Short but exciting adventures for then, a very young engineer.

Consider a library search first looking for societies/associations of those who designed. built, maintain tunnels of all types.
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill

Tunnel lining design guide

British Tunelling Society and Institution of Civil Engineers.

London : Thomas Telford, 2004.

Print book : EnglishView all editions and formats

A reference to the recommended standards and rules applicable to formulation for bored tunnels, and shafts in any type of ground condition (in conjunction with the UK standards).

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William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-28-2021 08:52 AM
From: Chip Karo
Subject: Steel Lined Subway Tunnel Rehabilitation

Bryce,   You may want to check out Warren Epoxy products, which can provide a structural component along with protecting from future deteriation.   The epoxy has zero VOC's so it would be safe to apply.

www.warrenenviro.com

A&W Maintenance would be the certified applicator.
Max Silva
<maskemail>msilva@...</maskemail>
https://www.awmain.com/

Good luck!
Chip Karo, PE

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Chip Karo P.E., M.ASCE
Project Manager
Hoschton GA
------------------------------