Career By Design

With students out for summer break and trying to decide what is best for their future, I wanted to start a discussion on what you think is better, going into practice or back to school for a graduate degree? 

In my opinion, it depends, for instance, there are fields of engineering that are highly technical such as structural engineering that more often than not require an M.S. There are other fields that are not as technical and prefer experience over a graduate diploma. 

No matter what field you are in you need to consider if the return of investment of you going back to school is higher than going into practice and potentially getting a degree while working. I know a lot of companies that encourage this as they are able to train young engineers early on and support them with the higher technical skills needed. 

Finally, no matter what field of engineering you choose, it is important to realize that learning does not stop at the university level, there is so much to learn beyond that and we need to be diligent to seek that knowledge out.

What are your thoughts and advice to younger engineers who are debating about this topic?

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Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
Structural Engineer
Broomfield CO
luis@...
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Luis,

I would recommend, if a student intends to get their MS or PhD, to continue on that path before entering the workforce.  You are already accustom to the studying process, the technical knowledge from your BS is "fresh"​, and you can give your full attention to schooling.  I went to work as a structural engineer after getting my BS and then decided to go back a few years later to get my MS.  It was difficult to juggle work, night classes, studying for my PE, and starting a family.  My company did pay for my MS degree which was a perk of going down this path though.

Ultimately, each person needs to weigh the pro's and con's for themselves based on their situation but remember, you have the rest of your life to work.

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Joseph Neeley P.E.,M.ASCE
Modjeski and Masters, Inc.
Charleston WV
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Joseph, 

I agree with you. I think getting the MS right after the BS is the best option if your career requires it. I cannot imagine going back to school right now, even when I am only 2 years out of school.

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Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
Structural Engineer
Broomfield CO
luis@...
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2019 13:55
From: Joseph Neeley
Subject: Going into Practice or Back to School for an M.S.?

Luis,

I would recommend, if a student intends to get their MS or PhD, to continue on that path before entering the workforce.  You are already accustom to the studying process, the technical knowledge from your BS is "fresh"​, and you can give your full attention to schooling.  I went to work as a structural engineer after getting my BS and then decided to go back a few years later to get my MS.  It was difficult to juggle work, night classes, studying for my PE, and starting a family.  My company did pay for my MS degree which was a perk of going down this path though.

Ultimately, each person needs to weigh the pro's and con's for themselves based on their situation but remember, you have the rest of your life to work.

------------------------------
Joseph Neeley P.E.,M.ASCE
Modjeski and Masters, Inc.
Charleston WV
------------------------------

Thanks Luis for the questions.
Actually, the answer to those questions, as well as to their follow-up queries is simultaneously simple and complex:

                         "It depends."

So as not to appear avoiding the challenge, I offer two generic paths without suggesting they are 'best' for all:
a. Obtain your P.E. license at the earliest possible time. Take the EIT 'now' and immediately accumulate approvable professional-level experience
to take the Parts II & III (if that is still the requirement) also at the earliest possible time.

b. Upon completion of your undergraduate degree, go work for a year or so within a multidisciplinary E/A/C firm (as in a. above).
Then determine if you wish to invest the rest of your life, the next 65 years or more, in that environment, or perhaps play a part to change the socio-cultural environment. 

Other professional fields of study have welcomed, with open arms, into their graduate-level masters programs civil engineers who bring their analytical 
skill sets to balance 'soft skill' reasoning.

And please recall I did start by stating "It depends."

Cheers,
Bill




------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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Bill, 

Thanks for your reply. This is true, as most questions in life it depends. There are a ton of factors that can change your decision and I think taking that year to take a "generic" job with a variety of disciplines would be helpful. Do you mind sharing a little bit of insight into how you approach this early on in your career? From your signature, I see you have a Ph.D., what factors led you to get that higher education? Where are you looking to continue your career in academia?

------------------------------
Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
Structural Engineer
Broomfield CO
luis@...
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2019 14:26
From: William Hayden
Subject: Going into Practice or Back to School for an M.S.?

Thanks Luis for the questions.
Actually, the answer to those questions, as well as to their follow-up queries is simultaneously simple and complex:

                         "It depends."

So as not to appear avoiding the challenge, I offer two generic paths without suggesting they are 'best' for all:
a. Obtain your P.E. license at the earliest possible time. Take the EIT 'now' and immediately accumulate approvable professional-level experience
to take the Parts II & III (if that is still the requirement) also at the earliest possible time.

b. Upon completion of your undergraduate degree, go work for a year or so within a multidisciplinary E/A/C firm (as in a. above).
Then determine if you wish to invest the rest of your life, the next 65 years or more, in that environment, or perhaps play a part to change the socio-cultural environment.

Other professional fields of study have welcomed, with open arms, into their graduate-level masters programs civil engineers who bring their analytical
skill sets to balance 'soft skill' reasoning.

And please recall I did start by stating "It depends."

Cheers,
Bill




------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
------------------------------

I would have to agree with Bill.  I would also like to add that I think a lot of people long in this profession have lost sight with how much the cost of education has sky-rocketed.  I think for most people they really need to take a look into the cost of getting that secondary education degree. Particularly so in a field like Civil Engineering where it may not dramatically change your career path.  For some it may be financially irresponsible to take on that additional debt, for a meager raise leaving graduate school.

That is not to say that secondary education is bad, on the contrary it is absolutely necessary for some careers and beneficial to all.  Just that if you can get into the workforce and have an employer at the very least help to pay for it, that makes a huge difference.  Also as Bill mentioned, you want to make sure that this career is right for you.  If you start into a line of work you may realize that your passions lay elsewhere or in a different part of the business.  Before investing in more education, you want to be sure it's what you want to do.  Maybe you like the technical side and a Master of Science is best. Maybe you like the business side and a Master of Business Arts is better.  Or another maybe something else altogether.

I'm a firm believer that there really is no substitute for experience.  So much of what we learn in school is ideal scenarios to learn the concepts and how to apply them in simple situations.  The types of complex problem solving needed in real world engineering just aren't what you learn in school.  It takes real hands on experience to learn all the complexities and nuances.  So while an additional degree can always supplement this knowledge it can never replace it.

Lastly, I agree that doing all schooling at once is probably the easiest way to do it, but I just don't think it's the best.  In my experience, the easiest way to do something (anything) is seldom the best.  Not that you should see out the hardest either, like any engineering problem the best method is going to be striking a balance of each and your own personal situation.  Or simply, it depends.

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James Smith P.E.,M.ASCE
Design Engineer
Grand Rapids MI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-15-2019 07:48
From: Luis Duque
Subject: Going into Practice or Back to School for an M.S.?

Bill,

Thanks for your reply. This is true, as most questions in life it depends. There are a ton of factors that can change your decision and I think taking that year to take a "generic" job with a variety of disciplines would be helpful. Do you mind sharing a little bit of insight into how you approach this early on in your career? From your signature, I see you have a Ph.D., what factors led you to get that higher education? Where are you looking to continue your career in academia?

------------------------------
Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
Structural Engineer
Broomfield CO
<maskemail>luis@...</maskemail>
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2019 14:26
From: William Hayden
Subject: Going into Practice or Back to School for an M.S.?

Thanks Luis for the questions.
Actually, the answer to those questions, as well as to their follow-up queries is simultaneously simple and complex:

                         "It depends."

So as not to appear avoiding the challenge, I offer two generic paths without suggesting they are 'best' for all:
a. Obtain your P.E. license at the earliest possible time. Take the EIT 'now' and immediately accumulate approvable professional-level experience
to take the Parts II & III (if that is still the requirement) also at the earliest possible time.

b. Upon completion of your undergraduate degree, go work for a year or so within a multidisciplinary E/A/C firm (as in a. above).
Then determine if you wish to invest the rest of your life, the next 65 years or more, in that environment, or perhaps play a part to change the socio-cultural environment.

Other professional fields of study have welcomed, with open arms, into their graduate-level masters programs civil engineers who bring their analytical
skill sets to balance 'soft skill' reasoning.

And please recall I did start by stating "It depends."

Cheers,
Bill




------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880