Risk Management

  • 1.  How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 10 days ago

    I recently received a request from ASCE for my support in developing the ASCE CEC Early Career cross-discipline certification. This request prompted me to review the CEBOK, which includes a section on Risk and Uncertainty. It further prompted me to examine the distinction between risk and uncertainty. I found this reference to Frank Wright

    https://news.mit.edu/2010/explained-knightian-0602

    Frank Knight was an idiosyncratic economist who formalized a distinction between risk and uncertainty in his 1921 book, Risk, Uncertainty, and Profit. As Knight saw it, an ever-changing world brings new opportunities for businesses to make profits, but also means we have imperfect knowledge of future events. Therefore, according to Knight, risk applies to situations where we do not know the outcome of a given situation, but can accurately measure the odds. Uncertainty, on the other hand, applies to situations where we cannot know all the information we need in order to set accurate odds in the first place.

    Searching for Frank Knight and risk and uncertainty will yield many more references.

    How do you view the difference between risk and uncertainty? Sharpening this distinction would help everyone.



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    Mitch Winkler P.E.(inactive), M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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  • 2.  RE: How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 10 days ago
    It's a statistical data availability for predicting casuality and uncertainty comes from suppression of incidents and absense of report correctly the loss of lives and materials. 
    FCEng: Alex Thomas MASCE PE 

    Thanks & Best Regards,
    Alex Thomas BSc, C.Eng(I)
    FIE(I) REng M.ASCE





  • 3.  RE: How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 5 days ago

    The CEBOK does a good job of distinguishing between risk and uncertainty, defining risk as "... the most likely consequence of a particular hazard or vulnerability combined with the likelihood or probability of it occurring." That definition, distinct from uncertainty, is consistent with the definition given in the Risk Primer  developed by this community.

    I'm not enthusiastic about the CEBOK's almost constant linking of uncertainty to risk by using the phrase "Risk and Uncertainty" instead of just "Risk." While risk includes the effects of uncertainty, each term stands on its own. Risk also includes probability and consequences but we don't lump all those words into one label. Risk is risk.

    Bill Mc



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    William McAnally Ph.D., P.E., BC.CE, BC.NE, F.ASCE
    ENGINEER
    Columbus MS
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  • 4.  RE: How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 5 days ago
    Risk is money , no pain no gain, behind risk it's always have been care . Uncertainty is another statement of risk. Risk occurs because that uncertainty prevailing. It's certainly sun rises tommorow but not sure about the other woman attack. 
    FCEng Alex Thomas MASCE PE 

    Thanks & Best Regards,
    Alex Thomas BSc, C.Eng(I)
    FIE(I) REng M.ASCE





  • 5.  RE: How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 5 days ago
    Edited by Mitchell Winkler 4 days ago

    For a profession that relies on precision, the lack of precision on this topic does not speak well for the profession. We can and must do better. 

    We have an opportunity in this community to sharpen these definitions and develop a consensus view. This would be a huge value add to the profession, especially our younger members. 

    I suggest we adopt Frank Knight’s definition of uncertainty as a starting point in our efforts to improve precision.

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    Mitch Winkler P.E.(inactive), M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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  • 6.  RE: How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 3 days ago

    In daily language "risk" is connotated with hazard, whereas uncertainty is more neutral and includes also opportunities. This coincides with the meaning of the Latin word "riscare" which means sailing around a cape (i.e. risks of ship wrecking deliberately taken for the sake of entrepreneural rewards, e.g. by Vasca da Gama searching for spices in India).

    Insisting on the term "risk" to be likewise positive ("upstream risk") or negative ("downstream risk") appears to be difficult. Hence the loose practice to speak of "risks & uncertainties" -- which should more precisely be replaced by "threats & opportunities".

    Note also that usually there are many uncertainties, which don't really matter in terms of success or failure of an undertaking. Hence David Hilson coined the memo: "Risks are uncertainties that matter".



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    [J.-Martin] [Hohberg]
    [Dr.sc.techn, M.ASCE FED]
    [Sr. Consultant, IABSE e-Learning Board]
    [Bremgarten / Berne] [Switzerland]
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  • 7.  RE: How do you distinguish between risk and uncertainty?

    Posted 3 days ago
    Thanks for sharing your insight and connecting this community to David Hillson, aka the Risk Doctor. I think Hillson nails it with his phrase: "Risks are uncertainties that matter". Hillson's website contains over 140 briefing notes that should be of interest to our community. All are potential topics for discussion. These briefing notes include a discussion on opportunities and threats, that you also touched upon.
     
    I think we should consider developing a glossary of risk related terms. This would help others as they revise documents like the CEBOK, and help sharpen understanding. 
     
    https://risk-doctor.com/



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    Mitch Winkler P.E.(inactive), M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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