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Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

  • 1.  Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 05-09-2023 05:14 PM

    Following up on the recent post on Practicing Professionals Publishing Papers I'm curious about the value CE practitioners gain from the ASCE Journals. I don't mean to dismiss the importance of the content that gets reported in these journals but most published articles are not relatable or relevant to someone practicing engineering. I like the articles in Civil Engineering for their relevancy and readability. I only wish there was more detail, especially around the novel and unusual aspects of the reported projects. What do others think? Is more needed/can more be done to address the needs of practicing engineers?



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    Mitch Winkler P.E., M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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  • 2.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 05-15-2023 11:13 AM

    Our journals allow for case studies that can be extremely valuable to practice-oriented engineers. Obstacles include convincing authors to submit case studies and reviewers who understand the role of cases studies. The latter can be accomplished by a strong editor who recruits and uses practitioners as reviewers instead of those who are research-oriented.
    Research papers convey useful information to other researchers and occasionally to practitioners. We need both in our journals.

    Bill



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    William McAnally Ph.D., P.E., D.CE, D.NE, F.ASCE
    ENGINEER
    Columbus MS
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  • 3.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 05-15-2023 11:15 AM

    Mitch, 
    I agree with your comments.  I am also a member of ITE, and they try to  mix the articles published between academic and professional/practical articles.  I think we have gotten away from encouraging practicing engineers publishing articles, where most are research articels by professors and their students.  I think there is a place for both. 



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    Jeryl Hart P.E., M.ASCE
    Sr. Vice President Engineering
    Lubbock TX
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  • 4.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 05-15-2023 12:18 PM

    I have relied on papers published in the Journal of Hydraulic Engineering for many years.  While most papers focus on subject matter and details that are not of interest to my practice, some are very practical and useful.  Most useful have been papers on dam breach geometry, bank full and downstream hydraulic geometry of alluvial channels, ice influence on channel geometry, channel migration, and on pier, abutment, and plunge pool scour.  Most recently, inspired by discontent with ambiguous uncertainty associated with application of available bedload transport equations, I have reviewed many bedload transport papers prior to development of the Regime Channel Bedload Transport Equation (https://ascelibrary.org/doi/10.1061/JHEND8.HYENG-12983), a very simple equation suitable for bedload prediction with known uncertainty.



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    Norman Braithwaite P.E., M.ASCE
    Consultant
    Redding CA
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  • 5.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 05-30-2023 12:03 PM

    Thanks for this post Mitch!

    First, I understand that those engineers in education need to "Publish or Perish."

    What has been frustrating for me is the current editors in the Leadership and Management Journal have continually refused to review the third part of my trilogy. The first two papers are published:

    Part I: Elephant in the Living Room[1]

     Part II: May the Force Be With You: Anatomy of Project Failures[2]

    What remains to be published in this trilogy:

    ·         Part III: Managing Projects Successfully in a World of Uncertainty

    I was told by LME editors "We do not publish those types of papers any longer."

    So, while I empathize with our colleagues in education, to reject practical engineer's experiences within our journals deprives emerging engineers of the value of real-world engineering within projects, programs, and life with the offices of those engineers.

    Cheers,

    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., Engineering Management; CMQ/OE; Fellow, ASCE



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    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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  • 6.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 05-31-2023 04:46 PM

    I am also surprised by the LME editors' response to your third paper.  Although I haven't seen Part 3, the first two were excellent explorations of project conflicts and resolution methods -- methods that I have also used successfully.

    Reviewers sometimes mistakenly recommend a paper's rejection because they misunderstand the journal's aims and audiences. It's up to the editor to recognize those mistakes and make a correct decision. In the case of Part 3, it appears the editor has made a mistake, perhaps thinking that she/he can modify the aims of a journal unilaterally, instead of with the concurrence of the appropriate ASCE governing authority.

    You probably asked for clarification of "these types of papers." Did you get a reasonable reply?



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    William McAnally Ph.D., P.E., D.CE, D.NE, F.ASCE
    ENGINEER
    Columbus MS
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  • 7.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-01-2023 10:05 AM

    Thanks William!

    Q. "Did you get a reasonable reply?"

    A. LME Editor: "We do not publish those types of papers any longer."

    So William, I find that type of attitude not much different then that of ABET.

    Despite the clear evidence why at least 60% of projects fail:

    • Successful Projects Routinely = Mastery, Technical  Matters Mastery, Sociocultural Matters.

    Seems like 'evolution' isn't working.

    Maybe its time for the "Other __ evolution (?)"

    Q. Who and when will someone in charge say "The King is Not wearing clothes!"

    Cheers,

    Bill

    Cheers,

    Bill



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    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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  • 8.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-01-2023 12:56 PM

    If that's all they said, Bill, you can appeal the decision. The ASCE authors' guide says:

    An author who disagrees with a review decision may appeal it by contacting the Journal's Editorial Coordinator within 12 months from the decision date. The Coordinator will forward the appeal to the Managing Editor of the journal who will consult with the Chief Editor of the journal to determine if the appeal is valid. If the appeal is deemed valid, the Managing Editor will send the submission back to the authors through the Editorial Manager system to upload their appeal letter with their original submission to be rereviewed. If it is again declined, the decision may be appealed to the appropriate division, council, or institute. The division, council, or institute's decision is final.



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    William McAnally Ph.D., P.E., D.CE, D.NE, F.ASCE
    ENGINEER
    Columbus MS
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  • 9.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-07-2023 01:57 PM

    Thanks for your advice William.

    Upon refelction though, why have ASCE Editors changed course navigation from the days when articles from

    experienced engineers in practice were sought, i.e., to be shared in publication?

    • Suggestion:Rather than challenge the academics, why not initiate a journal for practicing enginners? And of course we would invite academics in as well.

    We must always have space for all.

    Cheers,

    Bill



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    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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  • 10.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-08-2023 08:13 AM

    I think there's both a need and opportunity for folks in a leadership role over journals to join this conversation. The opportunity is to offer insight and perspective. The need is to mitigate readers of this string from climbing the inference ladder.



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    Mitch Winkler P.E., M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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  • 11.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-02-2023 11:12 AM

    I would like to hear from somebody with journal oversight regarding communication policy. Generalizing from Bill's experience, if an editor is allowed to reject a paper and simply say We do not publish those types of papers any longer I think that speaks to a process issue. Writing a paper takes time and effort. One also has to assume that the paper's purpose is for the profession's betterment. Providing anything less than detailed feedback should be an expected courtesy.  



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    Mitch Winkler P.E., M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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  • 12.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-02-2023 11:13 AM

    Bill, I am surprised and disappointed to learn that ASCE LME Journal refused to review and consider your 3rd paper of the series. I had the opportunity to read your 2 published papers – the e-prints of which you kindly sent me while ago. And found the papers refreshing and enlightening. They presented careful analyses of the anatomy of project failures – enriched by looking into them from wide perspectives.

    • You talked about the existence of traditional biases and absence of human elements in engineering leadership and management. Bringing to light the Lewin (1951) model of human behavior characterization – that an individual's performance is so rightly conditioned by the surrounding. I have learned about it from your paper.

    • Who are the Elephants in the Room? Well, I like to urge all to read the papers (now that you highlighted them in this forum) to know about some prevailing dysfunctions. I am sure, many questions CE practitioners have in their mind will get clarity.

    • I see some good suggestions from Bill McAnally. But in my view, appeals rarely change decisions. Institutions always tend to stick to their earlier decisions – even if they have been made at a lower level. Because, they see it as a challenge to their reputation. Institutions consider it as their prerogative to accept or reject something. Further, one should realize that such appeals are not court procedures – rather they are made in streams of communications where parties do not argue and counter-argue like in a public court of law.

    • Perhaps you have thought already, but may consider sending the manuscript to other similar journals. There is no reason that it does have to be published in an ASCE journal – is there? By publishing in others, you may even reach wider audience.

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    Dr Dilip K Barua, PhD

    Website Links and Profile




  • 13.  RE: Journal Article Value to CE Practitioners

    Posted 06-05-2023 11:00 AM

    Thank you Dilip fpr your remarks and suggestons.

    Cheers,

    Bill



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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