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  • 1.  Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-25-2019 11:15 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-25-2019 11:14 AM
    There is a practice of recording time-sheets, billing time to the client and many more standard systems like these followed in many industries. Do you think practices like these inhibit creativity but boost productivity in the long run?

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    Aditya (Ady) Deshmukh E.I.T., A.M.ASCE
    Staff Geotechnical Professional

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  • 2.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-26-2019 03:34 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-26-2019 03:33 PM

    I have been working for civil engineering companies for many years. During that time, I worked for a public works agency, a very large engineering company, and some smaller ones, including my own company.

    The only company for which we did not have to do daily time sheets was the public works agency. The only job in which I was specifically tasked to not be creative was the public works agency. The private companies rewarded people for being creative.  The public job wanted us to follow a very strict set of rules concerning what we could do, and what we could not.

    In private practice, occasionally you will get a chance to work on one project for the whole day, week, year. These are great jobs, and allow you to be involved in a lot of different things. Even in those jobs, they want us to bill tasks separately. Billing allows a lot of creativity. It allows you to compare progress in your personal career by setting baselines for your work. It allows you to compare your progress to the progress expected on a specific job.  It allows you to show a client how much more or less efficient you are compared to similar companies, it allows you to know whether the budgets you set when you start the project are appropriate, it allows you to decide if you have made profit or suffered a loss.  It also allows you to determine if you wish to work for that client ever again.

    Billing, and money are not "bad" words that stifle creativity.  Billing allows us to provide a service to those that we do business with, and paying us for that service is a small indication from our clients that they respect the work that they have been provided.  Starving artists paint what they are told to paint, full artists paint what they want. Being paid to provide excellent service, regardless of whether we are working on projects that provide people homes, ways to travel, places to work in, power for their lifestyles does not stifle creativity.  It actually makes it possible to have some.  It's not the engineers that believe that they are exchanging their client's money for the engineer's time that excel in this world.  These are transactional engineers, and are not much different than the clerk at the grocery store that takes your money for their bosses groceries.  It's the engineers that believe that they are exchanging their time for their client's dreams that make a difference.  And dreams have room for creativity regardless of whether it is a $3,000 dream or a $3,000,000 dream.



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    Dwayne Culp, Ph.D., Ph.D.,M.ASCE
    Culp Engineering, LLC
    Rosenberg TX
    (713)898-1977
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  • 3.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-27-2019 11:10 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-27-2019 11:10 AM
    I would argue that what Dwayne is calling creativity, I would call productivity. Billable hours and profit encourages productivity, especially if the rewards for productivity are shared with those who improve their productivity, resulting in improved business for the company.

    I've worked in medium to small consulting firms, the federal government, and now education. Creativity had nothing to do with having to account for your time. Public works agencies and other governmental organizations often can't put a lot into creativity because they were in a regulatory environment, where noncompliance or even deviation from standard practice triggers something in people who are taught from day 1 to be risk averse.

    If you want to improve creativity, people need time to think and mull and collaborate. Billable hours discourages that at the grander scales. It can inspire a great new look to a building to get it to meet the architect's rendering. But it doesn't address broad questions that are going to require shaking up the status quo. What are our cities going to look like in the future? How will we design transportation systems to meet the needs of people (and their impatience) while ensuring that our cities are livable and sustainable? In a world where water resources are dwindling, how are we going to optimize their use and ensuring that we are not creating long-term degradation problems?

    These types of questions require creativity, which requires time to think and mull things over and brainstorm. Strategic planning does not come naturally to all people. It can be taught because we were all curious as children so more people should participate than do. There is a reason why our current environment is called a rat race. It is designed to reward productivity primarily and set aside creativity for a select few. 

    So I would argue that billable hours reduces creativity and improves productivity. That, however, is one woman's experience.

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    Shirley Clark Ph.D.,P.E.,D.WRE,F.EWRI,M.ASCE
    Penn State Harrisburg
    Middletown PA
    (717) 948-6127
    Penn State Harrisburg
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  • 4.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-27-2019 01:33 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-27-2019 01:33 PM

    Shirley does have a couple of good points.  I agree with her statement that projects need to spend time with their clients to learn what the clients need.  I do not believe that we can do that in an environment of sparseness.  Creativity only works when the environment allows working outside the box.  Creative solutions usually over the long-term result in better solutions, and better solutions are almost always cost effective.  It is our job as engineers to be able to document how our creative solution has saved the project.  We can only do this by keeping tract of benefits and costs, including engineering fees, construction costs, longevity, usability, etc.  I am not sure productivity and creativity are separate ideas.

    I disagree that billing a client stifles creativity.  I think that not communicating with a client, and doing it the same way this time as you did last time because it is the "efficient" way to do it stifles the creativity.  Creativity occurs in the situation in which the client and other team members are willing to try something new.  Sometimes creativity has higher initial costs or time requirements.  If in the long run it does not have a measurable benefit to the "project" then is that specific implementation of creativity beneficial?  Creativity for the sole purpose of newness seems pretty wasteful to me. Unfortunately in our world, if you can't measure it, it is hard to justify something as beneficial.  Payment for our services is just one of the many things that can be measured with respect to the success of the project.    

    I agree with Shirley on the need for creativity in engineering, architecture and governance in order to move into the future.  This requires organizations and people willing to work together outside the billing environment.  ASCE has a huge number of committees dedicated to successfully bringing us into the future.  As engineers, we need to participate in that envisioning process.  Engineering companies need to accept that 100% billability is an illusion that requires unpaid overtime in order to perpetuate. 

    Paraphrasing Dave Ramsey, any endeavor that you do not make a profit on, no matter how noble, is only a hobby.  Engineering is a noble profession; we work to improve our world for people that we do not even know.  That does not mean that we should not be paid for it.  Billing for our hours worked is about the only way I can think for that allows us to continue to work in that noble profession.  There should be no shame in doing good work for the good our clients and the world we live in while being paid to do it.



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    Dwayne Culp, Ph.D., Ph.D.,M.ASCE
    Culp Engineering, LLC
    Rosenberg TX
    (713)898-1977
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  • 5.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-27-2019 01:58 PM
    I agree with you Shirley!

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    Aditya Deshmukh EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Staff Geotechnical Professional
    Lansdale PA
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  • 6.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-27-2019 01:58 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-27-2019 01:58 PM
    Great point Dwayne!

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    Aditya Deshmukh EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Staff Geotechnical Professional
    Lansdale PA
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  • 7.  RE: Creativity and productivity
    Best Answer

    Posted 03-28-2019 02:03 PM
    Edited by Aditya Deshmukh 03-28-2019 02:26 PM

    Creativity that leads to efficiency and perhaps to high productivity – is something everyone wants – both the employer and the client. But if creativity – albeit very laudable and may ultimately benefit the company (in innovative methods, products and services) – comes at the cost of exceeding the budget (that's where timesheet comes in) – then no one wants it. What all want is due diligence in the services of an engineer that are technically sound, within time and budget – and are defensible from all different angles.

    There are some great discussions here.

    Timesheet appears nuisance – I have not met anyone who likes it – from top to the bottom. But our modern management framework – not invented by engineers but by business schools – says that it is the best way to go to control and manage things. Managing things by looking into timesheets – is like saying: I do not care what you do, as long as you show the billing hours for the client and are within the budget. Sound management practice? I doubt it. Instead, managing things should be viewed from interactive and proactive perspectives – in a team spirit to create a good product.

    For fee-contracts, timesheets are absolutely necessary for billing the client. But for lump sum multi-year, multimillion dollar contracts – the necessity of timesheets becomes redundant. The client has less care for it – the employers if they do it, they would be wasting time and resources (because there have to be some other people to administer timesheets) – in addition, at the cost of inhibiting employee spirit and productivity.

     

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    Dr. Dilip Barua, Ph.D, P.Eng, M. ASCE
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Website: https://widecanvas.weebly.com
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  • 8.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-28-2019 02:24 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-28-2019 02:24 PM

    I think you hit the topic very closely to my question. I understand from a business point that creativity should not be at the cost of exceeding budget, but would you agree with me if I say it has a very important process in an engineer's career, and sometimes the budget should come secondary to the stride that we engineers try to put forward to advance engineering as a whole from these small efficiencies I refer to as  "creativity" here? I think there is a beauty to engineering which roots from creativity and ends with producing engineering marvels that we see around us. Business just has a significant role in this process, a necessity I might say.



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    Aditya Deshmukh EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Staff Geotechnical Professional
    Lansdale PA
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  • 9.  RE: Creativity and productivity

    Posted 03-29-2019 03:01 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-29-2019 03:01 PM

    Let me attempt to answer your question in a simple but different way. Suppose you are given an assignment – that is rather well-established in methods, codes, etc. Therefore managers and colleagues will expect you to do it accordingly but with due diligence (sometimes it could happen that you find discrepancies in the process; you are expected to bring it to notice).

    But perhaps your curiosity landed you – to discover a new and innovative method (either through internet – which is in our fingertips, thanks to technological advances – or by your own innovation).

    As a budding professional, it is only expected that you communicate that to the leader/manager. It is likely that the leader will examine it, and if found sound and cost-effective, and have other potentials – he or she will quickly invite the client to a meeting to explain it. If everything goes fine and the client is satisfied – in all likelihood, he or she will jump on it – and will grant additional resources to refine the method, etc. And voila, you may have just gotten a boost in your career path. The employer will love it, and the client will like to have you in their next project.

    In an ideal world – that is how it is expected to work. In a real world – things may get twisted, or may not. But you should hope for the best.                    



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    Dr. Dilip Barua, Ph.D, P.Eng, M. ASCE
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Website: https://widecanvas.weebly.com
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