Thanks, Venessa. These are great points, but I've always had reservations about CE salary concerns. I got curious about this a little while ago, since it's such a hot topic in my field of Structural Engineering, the lowest-paid Civil discipline. Here's what I concluded:
- STEM salaries are nearly twice the all-occupations average. CE salaries are less than the STEM average, but only marginally.
- CE entry level salaries are above the average entry level salary for jobs requiring a bachelor's degree, and well above the national all-occupations all-ages average. That means that mid-career folks in other jobs are struggling by on a fraction of what our graduate engineers make.
- CE Salaries are consistently lower than Tech and Mech.
- Anecdotally, engineers who were around in the 80's and earlier tell me we've come quite a long way from the days of competitive bidding and constant fee-undercutting.
Tech makes us all feel bad about our salaries and benefits, because they operate on a business model that's basically a license to print money. I won't begrudge them what they have, but I don't see that as a good benchmark to "real engineering".
At the same time, I've seen concerns over recruitment and retention grow from a concerned whisper to an all-out scream in the past few years, and compensation has a role in that. But if we're pushing to raise salaries it's not because we need the money, at least not any more than the average American. I also feel that there are different and perhaps better ways to get and keep talent.
SE3 Survey data indicates that top reason people leave Structural Engineering is discrimination or harassment, most of it taking place in the office setting at the hands of a supervisor. Can you imagine how much DEI and outreach a mid-size firm could do with an extra $3k per employee per year, rather than marginally bumping up salaries?
Here are some references:
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/ocwage_03312020.pdfhttps://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensation/pages/salaries-for-college-graduates-climb-amid-labor-shortages.aspx#:~:text=The%20Summer%202021%20NACE%20Salary,average%20starting%20salary%20of%20%2450%2C944https://www.readgeo.com/geostrata/nov_dec_2019/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1537920#articleId1537920https://www.se3committee.com/_files/ugd/9158d2_ae67b3bac245460da15bcca759483450.pdfhttps://www.se3committee.com/_files/ugd/9158d2_fed19c4ae63b4c3c81b567eead5ee096.pdf------------------------------
Christian Parker P.E., M.ASCE
Structural Project Engineer
Washington DC
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2022 11:12 AM
From: Vanessa Rollins
Subject: Are we doing enough to meet the CE workforce challenge?
Oftentimes when I was on a construction site, I realized that I was, far and away, receiving the lowest compensation of anyone on site. I met a union painter who was training one day, and he mentioned he had a degree in civil engineering, but he chose to become a painter when he realized that he would only have to work 8-9 months a year being a painter, receive better pay, benefits, and pension, and after 15 years, could become a full-time trainer, and after 15 years of that, retire with full benefits. I have often considered his words and have just as often considered his career path. 15 years of labor and 15 years of training would have been all I needed for a safe and comfortable retirement, in lieu of 40+ of work with a retirement funded by the whims of the stock market. In a world where basics like owning a home and providing for a family are getting further and further out of reach for many younger people, people are going to make rational decisions about how to provide for their material needs, and civil engineering is going to become less and less of a rational choice for people to make with better, adjacent ways to make ends meet.
I was at a bar one New Year's Eve and met some software engineers making 3-4 times what I was making with similar experience to me. When I told them what I did, they replied, "Oh, you're a real engineer!" Respect, while soothing for the ego, does not pay the bills. When I started school prior to the Great Recession, I was told that civil engineering was one of the lowest paying fields of engineering out there, and the collapse of the home building industry in the late 00s only exacerbated that. Faced with record rents, record tuition costs, record childcare costs, it is only logical that people are going to insulate themselves against those stresses as best they can, and civil engineering has become a less and less attractive way to accomplish that over time.
------------------------------
Vanessa Rollins P.E., M.ASCE
Civil Engineer
Rimkus
Willowbrook IL
Original Message:
Sent: 09-22-2022 11:32 AM
From: Mitchell Winkler
Subject: Are we doing enough to meet the CE workforce challenge?
I read the President's Note In the September/ October issue of Civil Engineering and was left wondering if we are thinking broadly enough on how we will meet the future workforce challenge. What was particularly provoking was the comment that trade schools are siphoning off talent that otherwise might go into traditional CE educational programs. It makes me wonder if there's a way we can pull some of this talent into CE and not dilute the standards of the profession. I'm all for competency and critical thinking but is a four-year degree essential to fill many of the roles that need to be filled – and not compromise on safety or outcomes? Until we face up to this option we are really limiting the tools in the tool box to growth and likely leaving some great talent on the doorstep. I'm curious what others think here. This plays into a larger theme for me that the engineering writ large is ripe for disruption and if we don't take the lead it will happen without us.
------------------------------
Mitch Winkler P.E., M.ASCE
Houston, TX
------------------------------