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What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

  • 1.  What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-07-2022 12:34 PM
    Here's a potentially fun topic for a Monday. What's your favorite or most used idiom from the world of engineering and why do you like it? Conversely, what idioms do you find annoying or over used? We had a moderator call last week and the idiom "grease the skids" was used prompting this post.. An idiom (I had forgotten and had to look up) is a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words.

    ------------------------------
    Mitch Winkler P.E., M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-09-2022 07:51 AM

    I'm sorry, Mitchell  I totally dropped the ball on this one despite thinking 24/7 before I called it a day and hit the hay.  I thought I would get my act together the next day, so went back to the drawing board as soon as I had my first cup of joe.  To make a long story short, I found this task no piece of cake and no lightbulb went off in my head, so I sadly I pulled the plug on this effort.  I hope someone else has a brainstorm and posts their thoughts, but if not cut your readers some slack because they may have bigger fish to fry this week!



    ------------------------------
    Becky Waldrup, P.E., M.ASCE
    Senior Manager, Government Engineer Programs
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    Reston, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-14-2022 10:43 AM
    Whew, Becky, you hit the ball out of the park!

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    Dudley McFadden P.E., D.WRE, M.ASCE
    Principal Civil Engineer
    Roseville CA
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-08-2022 10:14 AM
    now there's some government work (thinking?) for you.  Thank you

    ------------------------------
    Sarah Simon P.E., ENV SP, M.ASCE
    Founding Partner
    Ipswich MA
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-22-2022 08:02 PM
    Hi Becky! Your response is the bee's knees!  Put a feather in your cap and pat yourself on the back!

    ------------------------------
    Reed Brockman P.E., M.ASCE
    ASCE Pre-College Outreach Committee Member
    Chair, Public Awareness & Outreach Committee, Boston Society of Civil Engineers (BSCES/ASCE)
    Vice President, AECOM
    Boston MA
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-10-2022 02:11 PM

    Mitch, thank you for picking up my slack. I have lost track of time travelling and working between cities. I have to laugh because I am still finding my way around these forums and had just looked up "idioms" for posting. In the case of "Greasing the Skids", as it a term thrown around by the more "experienced" members of the team and, as a younger member, I was able to grasp on understanding of its meaning based on the context of the discussion without knowing what a "skid" was at the time. It seems that some Idioms are the verbal picture for the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words". 

    "Greasing the Skids" is a very useful tool in project management and stakeholder engagement. I just need to figure out where to drop the discussion.

    I am curious as to what idioms some have heard that they know must be a decade or two before their time. 



    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-10-2022 02:11 PM
    Get your ducks in a row!  

    One of our department's most favorite engineers would walk by someone's desk and ask, "How long are you going to milk this project!"

    Informal submittal reviews and getting to one of those client decision trees, "We won't count our chickens before they hatch!"

    "Run this up the ladder.  

    When we saw directors and managers coming out or heading to your department head's office at 6:50 am and the 1st shifts starts at 7:30, someone would say "The dookie has hit the fan!"

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-10-2022 03:24 PM
    Calls to the service or "help" desk. After any engineer spent more than 3 minutes on the phone with the help desk, some engineering comedian would pass by and offer this advice, "Check the short between your seat and the keyboard!". This is more of a joke that caught on with the increased use of computers than an idiom. 

    On occasion, I offer that and an apology to customer service personnel after more than five (5) minutes on a phone call.

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-14-2022 09:47 AM
    "At the end of the day..." Why do so many things happen at the end of the day? Why can't they happen all day long?

    ------------------------------
    Thomas Walski Ph.D., P.E., F.EWRI, F.ASCE
    SR PROD MNGR
    Bentley Systems,Inc
    Nanticoke PA
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-14-2022 10:58 AM

    Thomas hit that nail on the head. That was the first thing that came to my mind as well, and for the same reason. It's not just idioms but also over-used buzz words….(sustainable, collaborative, holistic, leverage, strategic, passionate, etc.). Our industry is supposed to be made up of educated people, but why does everyone seem to have such a limited vocabulary that they have to use these same words and phrases over and over to the point it becomes comical? I have to admit however, idioms and buzz words are better than the latest alternative of acronyms. OMG it is frustrating being a Boomer trying to adapt to the world of the Millennials. I've been doing this nearly forty years and sit in meetings and hear acronyms tossed around, and I have to ask what they mean – and then I ask "why didn't you just say that?" OWRIJ5YA (oh well, retirement is just 5 years away)



    ------------------------------
    Michael Shirk P.E., M.ASCE
    Trekk Design Group
    Kansas City MO
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-21-2022 10:46 AM
    I wholeheartedly agree with you, I hate business buzzwords, and have more than one coworker who throws them around quite readily.  Often times, corporate communications often use them and use 200 words to say something that could be eloquently expressed in less than 50 words.  I tend to think of myself as very practical and try to be as concise as possible while still making sure that the main message is getting across.  I avoid the use of buzzwords and phrases and just state what it is.


    ------------------------------
    Angela Hintz P.E., M.ASCE
    Senior Environmental Engineer
    Buffalo NY
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-05-2022 05:12 PM
    I will not begin to travel the path of understandings between generations. I watch TV with closed caption on because I am clueless. In fact, it turns out that I have not had a clue since my being born.

    All it takes is a few songs from the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s to come on and when coupled with my recollection of the lyrics ... clueless. I am going to get a button that says, "Is that what that meant?"  

    Heck, we were learning and deciphering Morse code in my high school physics class.

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-14-2022 10:35 AM
    I had a boss that used to say "the juice isn't worth the squeeze".  I now use that as often as I can :)

    ------------------------------
    Mary Loden P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal Engr
    Brookline MA
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-14-2022 12:35 PM
    "There is no such thing as a 'small change'." I tell my students this every year in my capstone "Design, Practice, and Ethics" class when we discuss civil engineering failures. Some good examples: The Hyatt Kansas City walkway failure, Gatlinburg TN and Binghampton NY wastewater tank endwall failures, the FIU Bridge failure, the Minneapolis Interstate Highway Bridge failure, the classic eye-bolt failure. There was a small change in the original design and/or construction that caused these failures. If someone desires to make a "small change", investigate it thoroughly. Just because it looks "minor" or "small", there is probably a reason the original design was done that way in the first place.

    ------------------------------
    Joseph Reichenberger P.E., F.ASCE
    Professor of Civil Engineering
    Monterey Park CA
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-28-2022 10:12 AM
    That is some powerful wisdom right there. Thank you for articulating that thought so well. I am definitely going to add this to my repertoire :)

    Erik Brown, P.E., M.ASCE
    Civil Engineer
    CT, FL, MA, ME, NJ, NY, RI, VT



    ------------------------------
    Erik Brown P.E., M.ASCE
    Consulting Engineer
    Milford PA
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  • 16.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-09-2022 10:05 AM
    Reminds me of those request to rerun analyses with lots of elements and 15 or more load cases. It is simple, you have the model? Yes, but I do have to review & analyze the responses & results under each load case. Ugh, wind loads on asymmetric structures.

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-20-2022 12:20 PM
    "Cut to fit, weld to hold, paint to match" is an old one I heard over the years.

    "The cost savings will more than offset the loss of human life."  I believe this was from National Lampoon of from Ford vehicle managers when they used the top of the gas tank as the bottom of the trunk in the original Mustang in 1964.

    ------------------------------
    George Watson P.E., M.ASCE
    CenterPoint Energy
    Houston TX
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  • 18.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-21-2022 10:01 AM
    While studying my friend's College mate said observe everything you see is civ engineering think over it

    ------------------------------
    Alex Thomas R.Eng, M.ASCE
    Ajit Associates+Acd
    CochinAlexThomasR.Eng, M.ASCEIndia
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-21-2022 02:07 PM
    I started working on a survey crew at my father's consulting firm, in central Illinois, in the mid-'60's. (As the boss' son, I was the one they always sent into poison ivy patches and hot cornfields in July or down the brick manhole that was 20 feet deep. No OSHA in those days!) One of the surveyors used to frequently wrap up a task such as laying a baseline with "close enough for government work". I can't even count the number of times, in how many different consulting settings, I've heard that one over the years since.

    Jeff Rice, P.E., M.ASCE
    Retired, Whidbey Island, WA

    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Rice P.E., P.Eng, M.ASCE
    Water Resources Engineer
    Langley WA
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-21-2022 06:32 PM
    Speaking about a particularly slippery client rep who would never make a decision or respond in a timely fashion and avoid committing himself, I've heard, "He was raised in a round house, you can't pin him down or put him in a corner."

    ------------------------------
    Michael Kozinetz Aff.M.ASCE
    Construction Manager
    Murrells Inlet SC
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-08-2022 10:13 AM
    What a wonderful idea - Must be older, because everyone knew about the Roundhouses in the train yards where they turned the trains around.  "Round house rules" may be the only sometimes used phrase about round houses these days. Even Buckminster Fuller's round geodesic domes aren't well know anymore. 
    Least surface area for a given volume - we should be using them more for efficient buildings these days!!

    ------------------------------
    Sarah Simon P.E., ENV SP, M.ASCE
    Founding Partner
    Ipswich MA
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-27-2022 09:44 AM
    When I was studying Civil Engineering at the University of Washington in Seattle, WA the student ASCE chapter sold t-shirts that had the following humorous words on it:  I'D RATHER BE A CIVIL ENGINEER THAN AN UNCIVIL ENGINEER.  So folks, remember to be nice to your un-civil engineering neighbors.  :<)

    ------------------------------
    Eldon Jacobson P.E., M.ASCE
    RETIRED
    Seattle WA
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-28-2022 07:44 AM
    "Sure we can do it, it only takes time and money."

    or

    On Friday, when the project isn't done, but it's due Monday, "I'm so glad there are two more working days in this week." (Meaning Saturday and Sunday.)

    ------------------------------
    Thomas Halmi P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal Engineer
    Steelcase
    Rockford MI
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-28-2022 11:14 AM
    As a bridge engineer, I can't pass up "That's water under the bridge" and "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it".  Can't seem to get "at the end of the day" out of my most used and useless phrases.
    My favorite from a friend is "Let's get our ducks on the road".

    ------------------------------
    Joseph Harrell P.E., M.ASCE
    Supervising Engineer
    Selma CA
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-08-2022 10:13 AM
    and water over the dam.  Although people like to say "under", but that's an issue costly to fix.

    ------------------------------
    Sarah Simon P.E., ENV SP, M.ASCE
    Founding Partner
    Ipswich MA
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-30-2022 08:01 AM
    Uncertain as to the origins but when there is clearly a lack of communication between the management team and staff, one of the most famous sayings or questions from a frustrated coworker was, 
    "How come there is not enough time to do things right, but plenty of time to do things over?!"

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-31-2022 07:48 AM
    When I hear that one, I recall the words of Marilyn Vos Savant (Spelling?), the famous MENSA columnist.  She was asked how is it that you can complete a two-month task in a week and replied that it is never to late to do a bad job.

    ------------------------------
    Perry Cole P.E., S.E., F.ASCE
    Redmond WA
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 03-30-2022 12:19 PM
    Measure twice, cut once.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Fischer, M.ASCE
    Hydrologist, Retired
    Iowa City, IA
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-04-2022 03:07 PM
    How about..."Close enough for government work"

    Jeff Paradee P.E.
    JBLM, MAMC , FMD

    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Paradee P.E., M.ASCE
    President
    Tacoma WA
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-05-2022 01:00 AM
    Similar idiom for grease the skid , pour oil to the fire. Most probably the earlier may be the  idiom for Engineers

    ------------------------------
    Alex Thomas R.Eng, M.ASCE
    Engineer
    Ajit Associates+Acd
    CochinAlexThomasR.Eng, M.ASCEIndia
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-05-2022 05:12 PM
    Mr. Paradee, I have never understood this one given that most government work I was associated with was strict in terms of QA/QC. Do you know the origins of this saying?

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-09-2022 10:04 AM
    By the way, how long is "Two shakes of a lamb's tail"?

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-11-2022 09:17 AM
    James, I'm not sure, but it's a question of fact if it's quicker than a "New York Minute".......

    ------------------------------
    Michael Kozinetz Aff.M.ASCE
    Construction Manager
    Murrells Inlet SC
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-11-2022 11:41 AM
    First LOL of the day. That's funny!!!!

    ------------------------------
    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal/Owner
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-07-2022 04:35 PM
    @James Williams and @Michael Kozinetz -
    ​It is pretty easy to see that "Two shakes of a lambs tail" is being slow.  One shake of a lambs tail is half the time.   

    And both that and a "New York Minute" are incredibly fast compared to "Fixing to start to get around to thinking about beginning that task".​

    ------------------------------
    Michael Lembo P.E., F.ASCE
    R&D Manager - Speciality Materials & Innovation
    CertainTeed Corporation
    Souderton PA
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 04-13-2022 05:40 PM
    Old timers around me always say "They want belts and suspenders on this one!"  For higher than necessary factors of safety.
    My less practiced co-workers and I are trying to start "They want socks and sandals!"  To give the phrase more of a 20th century feel

    ------------------------------
    Joshua Reidhead EIT, A.M.ASCE
    Springville UT
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 05-03-2022 10:45 AM
    "Strength is essential, but otherwise unimportant" - Hardy Cross

    ------------------------------
    Gregg Freeby R.Eng, M.ASCE
    Executive Director
    American Segmental Bridge Institute
    Austin TX
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-01-2022 01:32 PM
    As a structural engineer for part of my career I like that one.  It makes you step back and re-look.  An important quality assurance measure.

    ------------------------------
    Douglas Porter P.E., M.ASCE
    Lakewood CO
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 05-03-2022 12:13 PM
    Measure twice, cut once

    ------------------------------
    Richard Monahan M.ASCE
    Deputy Program Manager for Design
    Ramparts, Inc. LLC
    Boston MA
    ------------------------------



  • 40.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 05-03-2022 11:12 PM
    Even if it is throwing away, measure it

    ------------------------------
    Alex Thomas R.Eng, C.Eng, M.ASCE
    Engineer
    Ajit Associates+Acd
    CochinAlexThomasR.Eng, C.Eng, M.ASCEIndia
    ------------------------------



  • 41.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 07-26-2022 01:05 PM
    "If you can't become a Civil Engineer,
    at least be a Sanitary one."

    ~1967~

    Cheers,
    Bill

    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 07-27-2022 10:46 AM
    "The laws of physics are not negotiable" and "When in doubt, make it stout"

    ------------------------------
    William Bala P.E., S.E., M.ASCE
    Owner
    Hawkins TX
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-01-2022 10:57 AM
    Mine has always been the defining difference between a structural engineer and a mechanical engineer:  If a structural engineer builds it and it moves, it's a failure while if a mechanical engineers builds it and it doesn't move it's a failure!

    ------------------------------
    Kenneth Berg P.E., F.ASCE
    President - Engineering
    American Grating, LLC
    Lewisville TX
    ------------------------------



  • 44.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-07-2022 04:35 PM
    @Kenneth Berg - When I was back in school (admittedly, some time ago now) we had a similar corollary, but it was between the Civil Engineers and the Mechanical Engineers.  Put simply, Mechanical Engineers made weapons, and Civil Engineers made targets. ​

    ------------------------------
    Michael Lembo P.E., F.ASCE
    R&D Manager - Speciality Materials & Innovation
    CertainTeed Corporation
    Souderton PA
    ------------------------------



  • 45.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-03-2022 08:41 AM
    At the water department we used to say, "Civil engineers bury their mistakes"

    ------------------------------
    Gregg Loesch P.E., M.ASCE
    Retired
    Akron OH
    ------------------------------



  • 46.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-08-2022 10:50 AM
    Mechanical engineers build the weapons
    Civil engineers build the targets...

    ------------------------------
    Joram Amir Ph.D. CE D.GE. F.ASCE
    Amir Geotechnical Engineering Ltd.
    Israel
    ------------------------------



  • 47.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-08-2022 10:50 AM
    "To control nature we must first obey her."  This is an old one, and not exactly PC these days, but this idiom does speak to our need to understand nature.

    ------------------------------
    Thomas Caldwell P.E., M.ASCE
    CHIEF ENGINEER
    Atlas Engineering
    Raleigh NC
    ------------------------------



  • 48.  RE: What's Your Favorite or Most Used Idiom from the World of Engineering?

    Posted 08-13-2022 11:47 AM
    The PPI (Put Plenty In) design method. But I guess you don't have to be a PE for that.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Tardy P.E., M.ASCE
    Administrative
    Duluth MN
    ------------------------------