Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Future of CAD in A&E

    Posted 07-21-2016 11:39 AM

    Dear colleagues,

    I teach Engineering Graphics (1000-level course) which is the only opportunity in our program for the students to get formal instruction in a CAD program, so up to now we have been teaching AutoCAD mostly because it is a good foundation for Civil 3d plus it's still the most-requested CAD skill in A&E entry-level job postings in our area (South Texas), but with the prevalence of BIM these days, and the availability of "smart" 3D modeling programs, I am seriously considering teaching Revit instead of AutoCAD, and would like your opinion about this change. To the students, it'd mean having to learn basic AutoCAD on their own  (at least temporarily, while Revit becomes the new A&E Industry-standard).

    I value your opinion, so please share your thoughts.

    Thanks!

    ------------------------------
    Jorge Vidal ASCE/AEI
    UTRGV Civil Engineering Faculty
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Future of CAD in A&E

    Posted 07-22-2016 10:26 AM

    Hi Jorge:

    I think it is more of a pedagogical issue. There are the skill building exercises, and there are theoretical notions surrounding the application of computer technologies within the AEC industry. How to draft a set of drawings to clearly explain how to construct a building and how to digitally model  in computational space I consider skills that need to be taught agnostic of a particular software.This skills are transferable skills, and can really be applied to any software package. 

    Revit is certainly the top BIM software being used in the industry for Architectural, Structural, and MEP practices. But in my opinion the application of BIM is really about how do we utilize meaningful data into the design and construction process using these technologies. And hence why it is more of a theoretical conversation/educational experience. Which of course becomes really modified as well when we consider discipline specific considerations. Where mechanical may be interested in streamlining energy modeling/analysis, structural may consider BIM for analysis simulation, construction estimating/scheduling as a few examples. So the educational value and focus of BIM really depends upon the intended application that really exceeds modeling in 3D.   

    This may also be important because you mentioned Civil 3D. In my experience Civil 3D is the BIM for civil engineers. Because the practice context of working with BIM really varies based upon discipline. I emphasize foundation skill building. Additionally, I am glad I learned CAD way before Revit .In CAD I drew every line it taught me how to be critical with Revit. Revit automates a fair amount of work. Which at times can be quite efficient. But one must also know drafting to be able to question what Revit produces. And for details I still do them in 2D using the same skills I learned when I learned AutoCAD. I just do them in Revit now. 

    But a very general response is that a number of firms are looking for people with Revit over AutoCAD skills now. And students who know the basic mechanics of how to use Revit will likely have a leg up. I know on the architectural side Revit ability is becoming a prerequisite for employment entry. 

    ------------------------------
    Dustin Altschul


    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Future of CAD in A&E

    Posted 07-25-2016 10:30 AM

    Excellent feedback Dustin; I agree that the first and foremost thing to teach in Engineering Graphics is the understanding on how to properly communicate a design in a graphic, clear and accurate manner, and it is also crucial to have the students hone their spatial visualization skills (I use Johns Hopkins' tests to assess their pre and post-course skills).

    From your perspective,  perhaps the best strategy may be to teach just very basic AutoCAD to reinforce Ortho-projections and then move into Civil 3D as core instruction with some Revit basics and a lot of self-guided practice on the last 2 so they will be able to have a solid understanding for future use in the other C.E courses, and so they be comfortable citing knowledge of the 3 CAD packages in their resume for prospective employment purposes.

    Any other thoughts and/or feedback?

    Thanks again!

    Jorge

    ------------------------------
    Jorge Vidal ASCE/AEI
    UTRGV Civil Engineering Faculty

    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Future of CAD in A&E

    Posted 07-22-2016 10:26 AM

    I think you should stick with teaching AutCAD into the immediate future. You're right that BIM is gaining ground in the construction industry. However, the vast majority of construction work is either small buildings or large bay open industrial buildings. In either of those situations, there is no real advantage to 3D modeling the job. Plus, you mentioned "smart" modeling. I assume you meant in regards to the program being able to build 2D design drawings from the model automatically. Even in the situation, a young engineer would be better served knowing fundamental autocad to better make corrections to those type drawings. While they can produce paper plans, the results are seldom satisfactory without some human modification.




    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Future of CAD in A&E

    Posted 07-23-2016 08:39 PM
    Hi Jorge
    I think this is a great topic to discuss. I completed AutoCAD years ago not because it was required, but because I really wanted to understand construction drawings and the software to develop each set. Throughout my time in graduate school, I noticed a heavy tilt toward Revit. Unfortunately, I did not see an offering for engineers or even architects to learn this valuable software. Architect majors primarily learned Rhino. AutoCAD dwgs (not Rhino) can easily be imported into Revit, so both software platforms are valuable. I decided to follow through on the webinars offered by Autodesk to learn Revit and Sefaira which I used to a great extent for Building Energy Modeling. My undergraduate degree was in civil with a structural focus and my graduate degree was in architectural engineering with a building systems focus. I do recommend teaching Revit to your students.
    I hope this helps!
    Julie



    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Future of CAD in A&E

    Posted 07-25-2016 10:31 AM

    It is indeed a quandary . From the teacher and student view it's probably determined by which field of engineering they are headed for and where the jobs are  . In AEC at the middle and top end BIM is certainly a requisite but at the lower end as Nathan points out its not so clear . CAD teaches how to think with planning on a computer screen with simple methodology learnt with a trusty stylus , paper and drafting table . The joys of learning lines , pencil types and format are still to me one of the great joys of our profession knowing our tools. Even Calatrava an Lehry still uses pencil sketches for basic work albeit focused on design.

    The danger of jumping straight into BIM is it's assumed that the student has these progressional basics which often is not the case . Once you reach outside of standard AEC and even its lower ( meaning simpler ) projects complex 3D looses its allure as it truly sucks every $ and time availability from the project. Revit  is certainly developing into a standard but as we look into the near future where your students will live and work even this is under challenge . In 5 - 10 years 90 % of AE tools will be apps on a smart device , mostly free and this will lead to an explosion of change and simplification from today Vendor complexity and may even cause a tsunami of change in our profession. Simple ( meaning less complex appa targeted to certain functions ) will dominate . 

    Maybe a better way is to look at the employers interested in your students and consider how you should teach them skills to product requirements and jobs . In many industries Sketchup is still predominant  and free licenses are available .

    Dont get overwhelmed at what's the new technology available as just as drafting table begat CAD which created BIM , which is being consumed by Parametric which will be replaced by i6DVCM . Where the jobs are and what dimensions 2 3 4 5 6 will always dominate 

    Leonardi did pretty good for a stylus pencil guy.

    You may find this fun http://ideapete.com/pdfs/Buildings_of_the_future.pdf

    ------------------------------
    Peter Baston Aff.M.ASCE
    CEO
    IDEAS
    Boulder CO
    (303)578-0886

    Original Message


Related Content