Discussion: View Thread

Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

  • 1.  Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-25-2017 04:45 PM
    Edited by Veronique Nguyen 01-25-2017 04:46 PM
    Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) has grown as a potential candidate to replace the gas tax in many states.  Currently Oregon has a voluntary pilot program (OreGO), and a similar program kicked off in 2016 in California.  Many other countries also utilize this method to generate infrastructure funding, but only apply the fee on trucks.  While a fairer method of taxation than the current per gallon gas tax, VMT has opponents given privacy concerns over the collection of the VMT data from users.  What can we, as engineers, do to change the public perception of VMT and advance it as a better alternative to fund highway infrastructure projects

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    Aaron Frits P.E., ENV SP, M.ASCE
    Road Design Leader
    Lawrence KS
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 09:35 AM
    This will require assistance from social workers and psychologists as the main issue is public trust on government.

    But, that aside, I could see social media playing a significant role in potentially implementing VTM, specifically Facebook. through both logistics and Public Relations (PR). Other platforms could also benefit from upgrading their platforms to incorporate an option for VTM to work, by making it as a game.

    ------------------------------
    Ricardo Fernos-Jones P.E., M.ASCE
    Geotechnical Engineer
    Whitman, Requardt and Associates, LLP
    Baltimore MD
    (410)246-3428
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 09:36 AM
    Aaron,
    I'm not familiar with the vehicle mileage tax (VMT) program, so speaking as a public member, I would presently argue for the gas tax instead of VMT. My reason would be because it is an upfront tax, similar to local, state, and federal taxes taken out prior to you being paid. Having to pay taxes after the fact can be very difficult for some, and requires good money management, which is not a gift of all. So to educate the public, I think it would be good answer questions such as:
    Where can I find documentation of why is VMT better then gas tax?
    What are the reasons behind the push for change?
    What are the consequences of not being able to pay VMT (or late payment) in a particular year?
    Etc....

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    Corrie Walton-Macaulay P.E., A.M.ASCE
    Assistant Professor
    Bucknell University
    Lewisburg PA
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  • 4.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-29-2017 09:25 PM
    I understand the VMT tax is the result of that segment of vehicles that use energy that is not measured at the gas pump.  Hybrid and battery only vehicles reduce the use of fossil fuels.  The discussion of financing roads should include the number of people and freight carried per vehicle such as vehicle/passenger/miles/traveled.  Another consideration is the discussion of "smart streets" that provide for bicycles and pedestrians.  Revenues to pay for roads also are generated by weight taxes, property taxes, VAT, and other systems.  How to fairly distribute the cost to build new and maintain existing will always be a challenge for the engineering community.

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    Owen Miyamoto P.E., F.ASCE
    Consultant
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 988-6029
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  • 5.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 09:57 AM
    My suggestion is to start by having a discussion that this would not apply to toll roads for cars who already are paying for the facility they travel. Then shift to educating the public that gas tax revenues are decreasing with more fuel efficient cars. With some electric powered vehicles already not using gas and therefore not in the revenue flow. If the VMT approach is not accepted by the Public, then we should at least approach the FHWA to index the gas tax annually like most state have done to offset the decreasing gas sales and inflation, until we can convince the Public that VMT is a better approach to pay for the maintenance and new construction of the roads we travel.

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    Thomas Lochrane P.E., M.ASCE
    President/CEO
    Lochrane Engineering Inc
    Orlando FL
    (407) 896-3317
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 11:49 AM
    In my own personal opinion, transportation is something that benefits all.  Similar to paying the public schools tax even though you have no children of school age.  It is a benefit to all that all children have a chance to be educated.  Those that do not drive much still expect the road to be there when they need it.  They still receive the benefit of all the merchandise that is conveyed through the roadway system.  Therefore, it is an expense that should be shared by all.  If you must single out a particular group to pay more for the damage to our roadways, then you should put it on those vehicles over a certain GVW.  Personal vehicles are not what is destroying our roadways, it is the increasing number of heavy load vehicles.

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    Leonard Lammert P.E., RG, M.ASCE
    SR PRJCT ENG
    Overland MO

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  • 7.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 12:02 PM
    Does anyone have information on the following: 1) Which states have initiated a new method for funding transportation projects, ie; VMT, approved bonding per referendum, increased license plate fees, started a toll way system within the last 5 years? I am interested in finding out how many states are moving ahead with rebuilding their transportation infrastructure with their own revenue sources to supplement their federal funding.

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    Richard Smith P.E., M.ASCE
    Pres
    R A SMITH NATIONAL
    Brookfield WI
    (262)7811000
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-30-2017 11:22 AM
    This will not completely answer your question, but in the ASCE SmartBrief from 01/27/2017, there is an article from Colorado Public Radio discussing CDOT's efforts in this area: Colorado Public Radio

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    Aaron Frits P.E., ENV SP, M.ASCE
    Road Design Leader
    Lawrence KS
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  • 9.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 01:49 PM
    Increasing demand on the transportation network, aging of road infrastructure,
    and dwindling funding call for innovative financing schemes. In my opinion, the <g class="gr_ gr_2378 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="2378" data-gr-id="2378">feasibility </g>
    <g class="gr_ gr_2378 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_disable_anim_appear Style multiReplace" id="2378" data-gr-id="2378">of</g> VMT as a fundraising mechanism may depend on whether this source can generate enough
    funding compared to the traditional gas tax. Hence, there will be a need for
    a detailed comparative analysis of both funding options.
    Secondly, the VMT funding option should be applicable to all vehicles, not
    only heavy-duty ones. This is because small vehicles, even though do not
    cause much pavement damage, cause wear-and-tear of roadway elements
    such as markings, street lights, traffic control devices, as well as contributing to the
    wearing out of the friction resistance of the pavement surface. Small vehicles also contribute
    to traffic congestion, which causes heavy trucks to travel at a slow speed. Slow moving
    heavy vehicles cause more pavement damage (eg. <g class="gr_ gr_2370 gr-alert gr_spell gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling" id="2370" data-gr-id="2370">rutting</g>) than fast moving heavy vehicles.
    Lastly, a major drawback to using VMT as a road infrastructure fundraiser is
    the potential fear that cost of goods and services may increase, since the increased
    transportation cost may be passed on to the ordinary consumer.

    ------------------------------
    Ken A. Tutu S.M.ASCE
    Auburn AL
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  • 10.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 01:50 PM
    The statement "VMT has opponents given privacy concerns over the collection of the VMT data from users." is true, but largely because many proposed VMT systems rely on individual vehicle tracking to calculate the miles driven. Although this approach may be necessary for congestion pricing systems that require identification of which vehicle uses particular roads at particular times, it is unnecessary for VMT systems.
    VMT charges could easily be calculated by taking odometer readings during annual emission checks or registration renewals. Because only the number of miles driven would be reported, there would be no tracking information collected. Many emission check procedures already record odometer readings.
    The annual tax could be based on both miles traveled and vehicle weight to account for the disproportionate road wear done by heavy vehicles.

    ------------------------------
    Ralph Grismala P.E., M.ASCE
    Technical Director
    ICF International
    Hermitage TN
    (860) 599-3534
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 05:49 PM

    The fuel tax as a revenue collection mechanism at all levels of government has many positive attributes including: a very low cost of collection, administrative simplicity, and the fact that motorists are not involved in the actual collection process, they  simply “pump-pay-and drive away”. 

    This being said, the fuel tax suffers from two very serious problems:  First is the fact that, at the federal level and in most states and local jurisdictions, these are flat taxes and the rates do not adjust with inflation.  This means that the purchasing power of these revenues has been and will continue to be eroded over time.  This has been addressed in a relatively small number of jurisdictions by indexing the tax rates to inflation so that they are periodically adjusted to recover the loss in purchasing power.  It should be kept in mind that the loss of purchasing power due to inflation is not unique to fuel taxes but is an issue that needs to be addressed in virtually every other transportation revenue mechanism including VMT Fees. 

    The second big issue is the impact of increasing vehicle fuel economy.  This really started to become an issue starting in about 2008.  With federally mandated fuel economy standards, if fuel tax rates remain unchanged the amount of revenue collected per mile driven by the light-duty-vehicle (LDV) fleet (cars, pickups, SUVs) in 2025 will be about half of what was being collected in 2008.  This is not trivial since LDVs account for about 95% of the vehicle fleet and account for about 90% of all VMT.

    To be viable, any replacement revenue collection mechanism needs to be as good as or better than the current fuel tax system on a number of key criteria including: total cost of collection; burden on the public, industry, and government; protection of privacy; user equity; and the ability to be applied in an environment with a mix of concurrent federal, state, and local fuel taxes.  Almost none of the current approaches to a VMT Fee collection system meet this test.

    The movement to VMT Fees as a revenue collection mechanism will not by itself solve our current crisis in transportation funding. The reluctance by the public and political leadership to raise fuel tax rates to recover lost purchasing power due to inflation or to raise new revenue will still be issues for VMT fees.  Unless VMT Fee rates are set at levels that will collect from the average motorist significantly more than they are paying today through the fuel taxes the VMT Fee will replace, there cannot be significant increase in the revenue raised.  In fact, to the degree that VMT Fee collection costs exceed the cost of fuel tax collection, it is quite possible that the average motorist will have to pay more than they do today just to generate the same amount of net revenue. 

    I am a proponent of VMT Fees but unless we can offer the public a VMT Fee collection system that is as good as or better than fuel taxes in every substantive regard, significant implementation in any US jurisdiction will always continue to be “ten to twenty years from now.”  If we can get past the hurdle of developing a viable VMT Fee collection system, the big fight will be where it has always been:  setting rates at appropriate levels to build, renew, operate, and maintain the transportation system our citizens need.



    ------------------------------
    Derek Morse P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal
    Morse Associates Consulting, LLC
    Reno NV
    (775) 813-8498
    dmorse@...
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-26-2017 10:18 PM

     

    Good arguments and discussion.

     

    Some concerns that people have:

     

    - VMT tax will be an additional tax, and not a replacement for the gas tax

    - Unnecessary data collection beyond simple odometer readings

    - Who will have access to all that data?  The government?  Google?  And will they really “only look at the miles driven”?

    - And will the revenue actually go to road construction and maintenance, or to every other non-highway project that can be remotely associated with highways? 

     

    Similar to what has been said, the government mandated higher fuel efficiency vehicles and now wants to charge more taxes because fuel tax revenue isn’t keeping up!

     

    A good article in the Los Angeles Times (26 October 2013 – “A black box in your car?  Some see a source of tax revenue”) summed up many of the issues.  It noted that the privacy issue is one that both the “Tea Party” and the ACLU have raised. 

     

    Quotes from the LA Times article:

     

     “… the taxes could be rigged to change driving patterns in ways that could help reduce congestion and greenhouse gases…”

     

    “Concerns about Big Brother and those sorts of things were a major problem [in a test project in Nevada]…  It was not something people wanted.” 

     

    And the best quote from this article is “Nevada is among several states now scrambling to find affordable technology that would allow the state to keep track of how many miles a car is being driven, but not exactly where and at what time.”  Doesn’t that sound like an odometer?  Maybe an odometer is too simple, and wouldn’t account for driving on toll roads as has been suggested.  But loading more technology into vehicles isn’t always the best answer.

     

    Perhaps a two-tiered tax system?  We could all pay a base tax just for having a transportation system available to use, and then pay by a combination of mileage AND axle weights.  As for the argument that the costs heavy trucks pay will be passed on to the consumers – it is already happening, but through a different tax structure, or just roads in bad condition.

     

     



    ------------------------------
    W. James Wilde Ph.D., P.E., M.ASCE
    Professor, Minnesota State University
    Mankato MN

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  • 13.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-27-2017 11:46 AM

    Very good perspectives. Allow me to add another and respond to some questions already posed.

    So Oregon is apparently in the midst of a demonstration project and volunteers could sign up through their OreGO program. Before signing up one can estimate monthly miles driven and then the delta between gas tax paid at the pump and the VMT is shown for you. I presume that the additional revenue is then collected monthly.  (For an annual mileage of 21k the additional monthly VMT was around $11.)  Could not tell how much the VMT rate for larger vehicles differed as users needed to call the program office. I did not have the time for that.

    It seems that the VMT program needs to begin with a cost very nearly that of the gas tax or it will be rejected by the masses.  I had not thought about the toll road travel and credit, but the taxes are now paid for miles travelled on those roads. Crediting those miles will not help to close the revenue gap we are facing in transportation. 

    A collection/distribution complication is how to share the revenue from VMT among the states? This would be even more so for commercial long haul vehicles.  The current system is not perfect in that regard but does lead to travelers paying gas tax in other states on extended trips.  VMT collected by your home state would need info on where the miles were driven in order to cost share. So I guess that would raise the big brother concern once again.

    Personally, I think that could result in better prediction of future roadway traffic volumes by using that data to support origin/destination studies.



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    Gerard Kramer Aff.M.ASCE
    Sr Dir Capital Projects
    Ellicott City MD

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  • 14.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-30-2017 12:23 PM
    These points are good ones relative to how to collect and account for how much drivers would be assessed by the VMT.  However, it still does not address the added administrative costs for developing and running a new program.  Increased staff hires, additional capital expenditures, and developing financial data to set the tax rate and update it would be added tax burdens for drivers.  Indexing the gas tax to inflation still seems a better approach to me.  Assuring that these tax revenues are used exclusively for infrastructure purposes is also necessary.

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    Eric Sosnowski P.E., M.ASCE
    Operations Manager
    Bluffton SC
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  • 15.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-27-2017 11:50 AM
    Already plenty of taxes collected to solve transportation infrastructure problems.  The problem is not with the public (who are paying all the bills) it is with the politicians who believe it is their money to spend as they please.  The need is to elect educated people, but I doubt that is going to happen when you have such a large populace that believes they are entitled to everything being free.  My federal tax exceeded 50K last year.  That is just federal tax!  No state, county or city included.  We definitely don't need to give these people more money to waste.  We need to demand they use what they have wisely. The politicians, on all levels, need to decide what is the most important and appropriate use of the money they have to work with.   It has been my observation that the transportation infrastructure is always the last thing on their list.  Sad, very sad.

    People are looking for ways to save money, not give more to the government.  Why do you think they drive efficient automobiles?  You want to tax something...tax all the bicycles, golf carts and pedestrians that cause a substantial amount of money to be spent on all of our roadways.  Lets find ways to make do with the capital we have now.  Lets make our politicians decide what is most important.

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    Harold Watters P.E., P.L.S., M.ASCE
    Retired Transportation Engineer
    Panama City FL
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-29-2017 09:25 PM
    California is cited as a state that is looking at this option.  Since CA takes funds from wherever they are collected and mostly dumps them into their General Fund, there has never really been an accounting for how the gas tax is used.  If this continues the VMT will not improve things.  If their fiduciary responsibilities continue to be compromised, then I could see CA implementing a VMT on top of the gas tax imposed at the pump.

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    Eric Sosnowski P.E., M.ASCE
    Operations Manager
    Bluffton SC
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-29-2017 09:26 PM
    I'm sure the discussion points I offer below have been advanced previously, but I fear this will minimize a citizen's choice to take road trips for vacations, or for traveling in general.  If this is an attempt to try to get cars off the road, or to encourage the use of mass transportation - then has it become a climate change issue?  Paying at the pump is a way to deal with however many times a person uses one's vehicle.  If you pay by the mile, then it would seem to me that there would be little difference whether one drives a large SUV or a more fuel-efficient car or Hybrid.  

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    Eric Sosnowski P.E., M.ASCE
    Operations Manager
    Bluffton SC
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-29-2017 09:28 PM
    I don't think the VMT would be viable. I live in West Virginia and it takes me 5 minutes to reach Ohio and 15 minutes to drive to Kentucky. If I travel in those states, how would the miles traveled in those states be counted if only an odometer reading was used? Would they take my word that the miles recorded and that I reported were truthful and not altered for more travel miles in a lower tax rate state? For travel in different states, some type of monitoring device would need to be installed, which would raise all kinds of privacy issues. If a federal VMT was used, who would decide how much each state would receive? Another concern is if one state utilizes a VMT while a neighbor uses the traditional gas tax, if you bought gas in the taxed state but drove the majority of your miles in the VMT state or vice versa, wouldn't you be being taxed twice?

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    Lee Yuchniuk S.M.ASCE

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  • 19.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 01-31-2017 11:30 AM
    Excellent discussion.  A couple of observations though - I don't agree with the original meme that it's more fair than a gas tax.  While there is certainly some additional damage and investment required for more fuel efficient vehicles, those dollars are minute compared to the damage caused by larger vehicles which inherently use more fuel.  

    Allegedly, "97% of scientists agree humans are altering climate" but that's different than "CO2 is a pollutant made by man that is destroying our world".  Anyone who has watched their vehicle thermometer go up and then back down while driving through a large city has observed the UHI effect.  Still, fossil fuel are a limited resource (just how limited we really don't know) so should we not preserve them when we it's easy to do so?

    The answer to where and when it needs to be collected would be easy.  OBDIII will be wireless, so driving by e.g. a police car or unmarked transponder could mean the GPS track is uploaded and a bill or notice to the IRS sent.  

    But do we really want that kind of intrusion and regulation?  A ticket could also be sent for that time the previous week when one was late for church and speeding to get there on time.  So much for engineering and the 85th percentile speed limit.

    I think we should keep the bigger picture in mind and just make sure the tax is commensurate with the damage.  I think a fuel tax is more fair than a VMT.  

    "Tax Bads, not Goods" - unk.    

    ------------------------------
    Stephen Hemphill P.E., M.ASCE
    Retired
    Rio Rancho NM
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-01-2017 09:42 AM
    Excellent discussion, and it seem viewed from many perspectives.
    I am fully aware that ASCE truly will review all options on the table and I completely agree in that review is necessary.

    I have in my biased way completed my personal review of VMT, based on my actual experiences from Sweden and how it was discontinued there. I was active in a motorist organization in Sweden between 1991 and 2000, and actually made it to national chairmanship 1997-1999, so i do have a smidgen of insight.
    My view, which was also mentioned by others above, is that the GAS tax system already in place is tried and true. Motor vehicle fuel tax rates have not been adjusted since my single days.  As I am now married and we have children in high school that says something. That is not as we know because HTF is flush with cash but due to lack of political will and leadership. Other forms of user fees such as VMT will not change the unwillingness of congress to be seen as raising more funds (taxes). With the exception of taxing the rich and evil corporations, who are never properly identified but used as a abstract enemy to the common man.

    Even with the political will to create a VMT collection system that some states are exhibiting we face several hurdles in my view. A new system will have to be created and funded, with administration and bureaucracy to the tune of another DHS.
    the fuel tax collection is fairly inexpensive as collection points are fuel distributors, even if we have 100 in each state on average that is 5,000. Imagine replacing that with a couple hundred million vehicles!!! and all are paid after the fact. Less than half of the drivers pay federal tax, so no funds can be withheld by IRS until April 15 each year. Not impossible, but hardly easy to solve.

    I won't even touch on privacy, commentary is not necessary as the concerned on the left and right agree for a change.

    I don't want to claim that VMT fee collection is impossible, as I grew up in Sweden we did have vmt on all diesel vehicles. Dad had a separate odometer in his Peugot and he (read border agent) had to stamp a tracking card each time we left Sweden to travel into Finland or Norway. the log was then submitted during annual vehicle inspections by "Bilprovningen". So it can and has been done.

    Why is it harder in the US than it was in Sweden? we are talking about about 20,000 times as many vehicles spread across 50 state regulatory jurisdictions. Many of our states do not have annual inspection requirements, many renew licenses bi-annually. And I have been able to purchase permanent registrations for my old clunkers both in Montana and Alaska. Conclusion - we need a federal agency focused on "harassing" vehicle owners to come in and report - result: we would need regulations to punish vehicle owners that "forget", making compliance mandatory and turning drivers into criminal tax-evaders. Also, Sweden did away with the separate diesel vmt tax as it was too cumbersome to administer. They just jacked the fuel tax on personal use diesel instead. Then added dye so that anyone driving a personal vehicle with commercial fuel could be apprehended, should suspicion arise.

    I say raise the fuel tax on gasoline and diesel!
    I am not sure it is a great idea to create a special tax on non-contributing road users, even though the group is much smaller, the concerns above still apply in smaller scale.

    OK - I'm done, soapbox is open!

    ------------------------------
    Tor Anderzen P.E., M.ASCE
    Palmer AK
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  • 21.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-02-2017 07:00 PM
    I've been reading the responses to a VMT and am curious to receive your opinions as to why states do not want to increase the fuel tax. It would seem it is the least costly solution to generating additional transportation funding yet Wisconsin along with other states seem to be opposed to raising the fuel tax and yet it hasn't been raised for many years. Why is there this opposition??

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    Richard Smith P.E., M.ASCE
    Pres
    R A SMITH NATIONAL
    Brookfield WI
    (262)7811000
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-03-2017 08:41 AM
    Opposition only occurs in election years. Unfortunately that is when it comes up.

    ------------------------------
    James Manzo Aff.M.ASCE
    Director of Technical Services
    A.H. Harris & Sons, Inc.
    Fairfield NJ
    (973)227-1600
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-02-2017 06:56 PM

    Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) has been promoted and discussed for many years now, but I prefer to keep things simple. Deterioration of highways/bridges is a function of the vehicle’s weight, moving across the surface. Coincidently, fuel usage (of any type) is a function of this same moving weight; the more weight moved, the more fuel required. Seems like a fair indicator for user fee assessment.

    Although I am a proponent of the fuel tax as a means of collecting user fees, I recognize that equitable adjustments and updates should be made to fuel tax rates to better reflect the vehicles being used today.



    ------------------------------
    Ricky Moon P.E., M.ASCE
    District Engineer Administrator
    Hattiesburg MS
    (601)336-5753
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-03-2017 09:45 AM
    One big problem with using fuel as a measurement is the fact that large trucks cause much more damage to road pavement systems than lighter weight automobiles.  The amount of damage increases at a much higher rate per gross vehicle weight.  Basing user fees on vehicle miles traveled multiplied by a factor that increases with heavier vehicle weight is the fairest way to pay for roadway maintenance.

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    Matthew Fenton P.E., M.ASCE
    TRANS DES ENGIN
    Baltimore MD
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-04-2017 12:05 AM

    I just want to inject some points into the discussion.

    Many states already have a truck vehicle mile tax in place on large trucks to compensate for the pavement deterioration they cause. Some even have a weight based vehicle mile tax. There is a mechanism, the International Fuel Tax Agreement, in place to collect such taxes. Any state wishing to collect such a tax may use it.

    So, in a way, the fuel tax should mainly cover other highway operations such as mowing, snow plowing, drainage, pavement striping, signal and sign work, and lighting. Little of operating costs relate to vehicle weight.

    Vehicles that use no or little fuel could be charged an appropriate amount at the time of registration to cover their share of operating costs. However, this may be at cross purposes with other government objectives, such as energy efficiency. Legislatures need to make such trade-offs, and trade-offs always result in some party feeling short changed. 



    ------------------------------
    Richard Brustman M.ASCE
    Retired
    Guilderland, NY

    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-05-2017 12:05 PM
    Last year I volunteered for the California VMT study using my 2016 Subaru.  I use a plug in module that reports my trips in California.  The study assumes a MPG for my car and the monthly "invoice" I receive compares how much I used in gas taxes and compares against a miles traveled fee.  It only collects miles driven in California.  The big downside - currently the data being collected and displayed provides too much detail on the individual trip (Big Brother is watching).  There are other alternative being used including just reporting odometer readings which works only if the vehicle is driven solely in California.  If folks are interested, I'll try and up load a copy of my monthly "invoice" and a screen shot of the trip data being collected.  One of the down sides I see with the VMT rate per mile is that the government could just adjust it where as gas taxes are passed by the legislature or through a referendum.  Of course, toll roads and bridges may still be the best way to capture the costs for building and maintaining a facility as each vehicle can be charged a different rate based on weight, number of axles, etc.

    ------------------------------
    Thomas Wilson M.ASCE
    Retired
    Los Angeles CA
    310-395-1398
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-06-2017 04:58 PM
    Dear Mr. Wilson;

    If it I not too much to ask, it would be nice to see the screen shot to get an idea.

    Thank you for sharing.

    Regards.

    Guna

    K. N. Gunalan, Ph.D., P.E., D.GE., F.ASCE

    President Elect Nominee

    Vice President AECOM

     

    kngunalan@...

    k.n.gunalan@...

     

    (801) 718-9470

     

    Linkedin/in/gunalankn

    Facebook.com/gunalankn

    Twitter:@gunalankn

    Instagram: @gunalankn



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    Kancheepuram Gunalan Ph.D., P.E., D.GE, F.ASCE
    Vice President
    AECOM
    Salt Lake City UT
    (801)904-4166
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  • 28.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-08-2017 02:23 PM
    Per the request of one of the discussion participants attached is a copy of the latest "invoice" that I received from the California pilot program.  The data for the invoice is collected by DriveSync using a plug in module.  It collects data on each trip including how well you drive such as speed and braking.  I've attached some screen shots.  As a side issue, in California, if you own a plug in Prius you can pay no gas tax for using the roads which we believe is unfair. However, California is pushing the use of more electric vehicles which if are now charged a mileage fee will reduce the incentive to switch from gas to electric.  Perhaps adding a road access fee to the registration for electric vehicles might take away the unfairness.

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    Thomas Wilson M.ASCE
    Retired
    Los Angeles CA
    3120-395-1398
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    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    CRP-1.pdf   990 KB 1 version
    pdf
    CRP-3.pdf   1.30 MB 1 version
    pdf
    CRP-4.pdf   1.11 MB 1 version
    pdf
    CRP-2.pdf   1.20 MB 1 version


  • 29.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-09-2017 09:43 AM
    Wow - Thomas's "invoice" shows that 20 mpg is the break even point.  Under this scenario, if you get less than 20 mpg California would reward you!

    My first thought is to wonder how much bureaucracy (aka $) is involved with all the "energy efficiency" rebates.  California gives up to $7,000 just for buying a plug in hybrid, and there are several other incentives as well:
    https://driveclean.arb.ca.gov/pev/Incentives.php

    Additionally, there are vehicle registration fees that could be adjusted for roadway construction and maintenance.  

    A VMT just seems to me to be counterproductive.  Fossil fuels (at whatever level) are limited, so should we not encourage conservation based on that fact alone? 

    As I recall, ESAL's are calculated on the 4th power of the axle load.  Granted, not the best way to calculate damage by vehicles, but it illustrates the relative damage. 


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    Stephen Hemphill P.E., M.ASCE
    Only Semi-Retired
    Rio Rancho NM
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  • 30.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-07-2017 10:30 AM
    Am not sure how VMT tax can be sold to the public without anyone mentioning the cost of collecting it per vehicle per year. It's hard to imagine it could be collected anywhere near as efficiently as gas tax.  You'd think it' be necessary to hire staff to take calls about VMT bills and that would mean fewer dollars to fix roads.

    The other beauty of gas tax is that it helps encourage fuel efficiency. Our grandchildren will be grateful for that since whatever fossil fuel we don't burn will be left for them.

    Perhaps it would be wiser to keep the gas tax and simply have alternative fuel vehicle owners pay a road use fee based on their energy consumption.

    It would make sense for only heavy vehicles to pay an additional VMT tax since it is not possible to fairly assess their fair share via fuel tax.

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    David Cooper P.E., M.ASCE
    AECOM
    Pittsburgh PA
    (412)503-4565
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  • 31.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-10-2017 01:46 PM
    If a VMT were implemented, why would anyone choose to buy a more fuel-efficient vehicle, perhaps at a higher cost?  I purchased a diesel-powered vehicle to save on fuel use.  Should those who drive smaller or otherwise more fuel-efficient vehicles pay the same per mile as the drivers of huge SUVs or heavy trucks?  There are a number of reasons that the fuel tax better apportions the cost than the VMT would.  If more revenue is needed, legislators should have the courage to increase the fuel tax and justify the increase.  An alternative taxation method could simply be devised for electric vehicles.

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    Richard Hennessy P.E., M.ASCE
    RETIRED
    McKinney TX
    (972) 562-6635
    Keller Williams RealtyKeller Williams RealtyKeller Williams RealtyKeller Williams Realty
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  • 32.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-07-2017 01:52 PM

    How is the gas tax unfair? If you pay a gas tax are you not paying a tax to drive your vehicle x number of miles on roads? It is a usage fee just like the VMT is a usage fee. Now if your goal is tax people because they use a specific highway more often or a specific bridge more often as a means of taxing them to generate dedicated funds for roadway infrastructure funding, that might seem a laudable goal on the surface but the reality is that local, state and federal governments cannot be trusted to dedicate funds from specific taxes.

    As an example look at Social Security, we are still waiting for the government to repay that fund after it was raided in the 1960's and it's been what nearly 50 years and that is still a column in our natinal debt (which is over $20,000,000,000,000). Government can't be trusted. Here's what will really happen if you try your VMT. Government will keep the gas tax and just simply add the VMT because well it needs more money. Very likely neither of the taxes will be able to be completely and fully dedicated to infrastructure funding and now, you will have big government keeping track of your daily movements via the VMT. Which of course that information will not be kept safe nor private as it will very likely be able to be hacked easily. They will also be able to use it against you in the future too for whatever reason. For example what would you be willing to bet that if they can track your every movement accurately, the government will be all to happy to then INCREASE THE VMT by instituting an increase by tracking you via congestion pricing. Be careful what you wish for.



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    Michael Brown P.E., M.ASCE
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  • 33.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-08-2017 02:23 PM
    I guess my first question is why should civil engineers promote this change in way of collecting taxes?  Will it somehow benefit our profession or the things that we support and stand for?

    That being said, I would caution law makers on moving to hastily in making this type of change.  If there is one thing that I know about Americans, it is that we hate to pay taxes and we hate even more being reminded of how much we are paying in taxes.  The current fuel tax is a hidden tax.  We all know that we are paying a tax as part of when we pay for filling our car or truck up with fuel, but very few of us ever sit down to figure out how much that adds up to each month.  If we had to write out a check to the government each month for the VMT, it would be like a punch in the stomach every month.  There is a good chance that many law makers would lose their jobs over such a change, and believe me, they are well aware of this.  

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    Walter Tack P.E., M.ASCE

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  • 34.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-09-2017 01:50 PM
    Aaron,  I believe the public generally feels that they are collectively overtaxed (maybe not all jurisdictions) so in an effort to transition the public to a new tax, an acknowledgement of all the taxes that have been implemented in the past for the same or similar purposes needs to be identified and an explanation needs to be provided about what will happen with those taxes.  ie id all the taxes currently in a gallon/ litre of gasoline and diesel, tire tax, heavy load user fees, toll road fees, etc.  Also, is it expected that VMT will be pre-paid and once you have driven the miles that consume the prepayment will the user have to "reload" a driving plan?  Does looking at the fee structure system for using public transit in cities like The Hague offer a partial solution?  In fact, how would VMT affect user fees of public transport?  What about cyclists that have special road lanes?  

    I agree that PR is critical to a change like this to capture the non fossil fuel users of public infrastructure.  Would it be better to levie a flat fee on vehicle registration that is calculated on historical usage and then require all motorized and non motorized vehicles using the infrastructure to be registered?

    This is an exciting challenge, engineering seldom has the opportunity to so directly impact the fiscal and governing aspects of social infrastructure.

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    Karen Ziegler P.Eng, M.ASCE

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  • 35.  RE: Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)

    Posted 02-10-2017 03:59 PM

    Hi all- It’s great to see so many people talking about VMT! As we do some work on the issue in ASCE’s GR office, I wanted to offer a few thoughts and some links to good resources.

    As others have mentioned, a number of states are currently exploring using mileage-based user fees, with Oregon having the longest experience (since 2001). The FAST Act kick-started interest further by including funding for pilot projects (eight grants have been awarded). With continued improvements in vehicle fuel efficiency and the increasing popularity of hybrid and electric vehicles, state and federal policy makers see mileage-based user fees as a potential funding source to supplement or eventually replace fuel taxes. Some policy makers are interested in having variable rates for the weight or type of vehicle (such as charging heavier vehicles more), as well as their utility as a congestion management tool (by charging variable rates depending on congestion along a route). There are clear technical challenges in the use of mileage-based fees, which is why testing out various approaches with volunteers in pilot projects is so important. ASCE supports mileage-based user fees as one option for sustainable transportation funding and believes there should be continued testing.

    On another point mentioned in this discussion…maintaining the public’s trust that when a tax is collected for a specific purpose, it is used for that purpose is essential to good government. That is why ASCE supports “lock-boxing” infrastructure trust funds, so that they are never used to pay for or offset other parts of a budget. The federal Highway Trust Fund and a number of state transportation trust funds have already been lock-boxed. Just last session ASCE was involved in the successful push to lock-box Illinois’ transportation trust fund.



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    Laura Hale
    Manager, Federal Government Relations
    American Society of Civil Engineers
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