Discussion: View Thread

Hello, 

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

​Kashif,

Most cities in the US (and probably most other countries as well) that have underground infrastructure such as subways have regulations and/or guidelines that must be followed in order to perform any adjacent construction without adversely impacting the subway. For example, in Washington, DC the Metro subway system is run by the Washington Metropolitan Transit Authority and has a manual that must be followed. Here is a link to it, https://www.wmata.com/business/adjacent-construction/upload/ACPM-Rev-5a-09-21-15.pdf

------------------------------
Jeffrey Dodson P.E., M.ASCE
Regional Manager
Schnabel Foundation Co
Oakton VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hello, 

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

A good example of this was the construction of the new parliament building in London. You can see some details of this at:


Portcullis House - New Parliamentary Building

Slopeindicator		remove preview
Portcullis House - New Parliamentary Building Architects met this challenge by using the diaphragm walls of the station below as the foundation for the outer perimeter of the building. In addition, six large-diameter columns were built up through the station to support a system of tied arches that would distribute the load of the courtyard walls. View this on Slopeindicator >

------------------------------
Rodolfo Saavedra A.M.ASCE
Civil Engr
Stone Mountain GA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

There is no short answer since this is a field all to itself. Essentially the design and construction planning for new underground infrastructure has to consider all of the adjacent buildings and infrastructure. The potentially impacted facilities become a programmatic constraint, like the subsurface conditions, the capacity of the new facility and anything else. The design of the facility and construction methods to be used reflect the constraints.

When it comes to foundations for buildings and other structures at the surface, the same idea applies. In some cases, an existing tunnel is deep enough that the added load from a new building is negligible. Sometimes the tunnel can withstand foundation loads for new structures, either by design or by utilizing reserve capacity. In more common cases where loads cannot be placed on the existing tunnel, the foundations for the new structure have to be at least as deep as the bottom of the tunnel. For shallow tunnels, this can be accomplished using excavation support and spread footings, For deeper tunnels, various drilled piles or shafts and elements excavated by slurry trench methods can be used. 

I hope this helps.

------------------------------
Richard J. Driscoll P.E., M.ASCE
Consulting Engineer
Lebanon NH
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

Another strategy for foundations near existing infrastructure is the removal of existing soil and replacement with lightweight fill to mitigate the new loads.

------------------------------
Scott Shumaker P.E., M.ASCE
Studio Leader
Portland OR
(971)404-9098
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-11-2018 23:57
From: Richard Driscoll
Subject: Foundations

There is no short answer since this is a field all to itself. Essentially the design and construction planning for new underground infrastructure has to consider all of the adjacent buildings and infrastructure. The potentially impacted facilities become a programmatic constraint, like the subsurface conditions, the capacity of the new facility and anything else. The design of the facility and construction methods to be used reflect the constraints.

When it comes to foundations for buildings and other structures at the surface, the same idea applies. In some cases, an existing tunnel is deep enough that the added load from a new building is negligible. Sometimes the tunnel can withstand foundation loads for new structures, either by design or by utilizing reserve capacity. In more common cases where loads cannot be placed on the existing tunnel, the foundations for the new structure have to be at least as deep as the bottom of the tunnel. For shallow tunnels, this can be accomplished using excavation support and spread footings, For deeper tunnels, various drilled piles or shafts and elements excavated by slurry trench methods can be used.

I hope this helps.

------------------------------
Richard J. Driscoll P.E., M.ASCE
Consulting Engineer
Lebanon NH

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

There is always a way.
You can help future engineers in the area by making sure that whatever you build gets accurately shown on the Record Drawings.

------------------------------
Hans H. Coucheron-Aamot
[Retired]
Albuquerque NM
(505) 897-2554
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

I agree 100%

As-Builts should be an absolute for every project along with not only showing the new constriction but a strict reference to all the  specifications, drawings, equipment layouts, equipment drawings, etc.,from any precious construction.

I know of a number of instances where undocumented or poorly referenced underground power lies where contacted by excavation equipment with very bad results.

Also over my 50 years or more of working on existing structures/facilities endless hours have been spent in searching thru plant documents trying to puzzle out what was/is/what might be hidden or why things look the way they are now and for what unapparent reason.


------------------------------
Allen Hulshizer P.E., F.ASCE, FACI
ASCE Life Member
Consulting Structural Engineer
Chalfont PA
(215)8872838
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-12-2018 08:12
From: Hans Coucheron-Aamot
Subject: Foundations

There is always a way.
You can help future engineers in the area by making sure that whatever you build gets accurately shown on the Record Drawings.

------------------------------
Hans H. Coucheron-Aamot
[Retired]
Albuquerque NM
(505) 897-2554

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

Thanks alot guys. The info was of great help. Will post more questions soon

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Istanbul

------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

But always remember that "Record Drawings" are only a warning that there may be something out there somewhere, and what was actually built may not look anything like what the drawings show.. Verify, verify, verify!

------------------------------
Hans H. Coucheron-Aamot
[Retired]
Albuquerque NM
(505) 897-2554
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-13-2018 07:17
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Thanks alot guys. The info was of great help. Will post more questions soon

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Istanbul


Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------

The most important thing I have learned during my 58 years in geotechnical engineering is "Take nothing for granted". As-made drawings are nice to have, but should never be regarded as reflecting the absolutely true situation. A fairly recent example is the trouble with the huge Bertha TBM in Seattle that got stuck by an 8" steel casing that was shown in the as-made drawing. The contractor supposed (wrongly) that it had been removed. The cost: many millions of dollars and two years of delays...

------------------------------
Joram Amir Ph.D. CE D.GE. F.ASCE
Amir Geotechnical Engineering Ltd.
Israel
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-14-2018 08:50
From: Hans Coucheron-Aamot
Subject: Foundations

But always remember that "Record Drawings" are only a warning that there may be something out there somewhere, and what was actually built may not look anything like what the drawings show.. Verify, verify, verify!

------------------------------
Hans H. Coucheron-Aamot
[Retired]
Albuquerque NM
(505) 897-2554

Original Message:
Sent: 05-13-2018 07:17
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Thanks alot guys. The info was of great help. Will post more questions soon

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Istanbul


Original Message:
Sent: 05-10-2018 10:03
From: Kashif Afridi
Subject: Foundations

Hello,

I have a question which keeps lingering in my mind for the past few weeks. I am an undergraduate civil engineering student in Istanbul. My question is that if we have crowded cities for example New York or London where we also have a lot of underground rail networks. How do we build foundations in such areas, especially deep foundations. I recently heard about this topic in a video but I couldn't find the answer. If any senior engineer or anyone who is expert in foundations can help with this, it would be really great. Thank you!

------------------------------
Kashif Afridi S.M.ASCE
Peshawar
------------------------------