Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-20-2017 04:06 PM
    After construction, the physical and operational performance of highway infrastructure system progressively deteriorates under the effects of loading, climatic severity, and demand increase. With regard to physical performance, pavements develop potholes, ruts, and cracks and become rougher, bridges suffer corrosion, delamination, and spalling, road signs lose their retro-reflectivity, and so on. With regard to operational performance, traffic congestion and crashes increases as traffic volume grows. The interesting question then is: at which point must the agency intervene? At which point to carry out rehabilitation, reconstruction, widening, provision of some safety countermeasures, implementation of congestion mitigation strategies, and so on. At most agencies, expert opinion has served such planning decision situations for several decades. In certain cases, such opinions have evolved into rules of thumb that may have been documented in guides or manuals. As more data become available on system costs and performance, it has become more feasible to address the issue from an analytical perspective. Is it worth migrating to that mechanism of decision making, or do the rules of thumb suffice? Or will business as usual suffice instead of expert opinion or analytically-driven solutions? How do each of these three decision compare with each other? Are the comparison trends different for different asset types (pavements and bridges) and operational considerations (safety and congestion)? The question of right timing of investment actions is one that is expected to generate significant interest and discussion.

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    Samuel Labi Ph.D., M.ASCE
    Associate Professor
    Purdue University
    W Lafayette IN
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  • 2.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-21-2017 09:36 AM
    There can not be any thumb rule for intervention,<g class="gr_ gr_45 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Grammar multiReplace" id="45" data-gr-id="45"> </g><g class="gr_ gr_45 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Grammar multiReplace" id="45" data-gr-id="45">to</g> my knowledge and belief any action has to be based on the data from the field relating to traffic, climate, weather and the effects on the infrastructure especially the ride quality and traffic congestion, density to some extent could be forecasted depending on the developmental activities.The intervention would depend on the permissible limits of deterioration and the economy of the intervention.

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    Ambuj Atreya Aff.M.ASCE
    Superintendent Engineer, PWD AP
    Noida
    8130222129
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  • 3.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-21-2017 11:32 AM
    You asked the following question.
    "The interesting question then is: at which point must the agency intervene?"
    Many years ago I chaired a TRB Committee that requested State Agencies to respond to the question "How much differential movement is tolerable"?  We were surprised by the answers.  Some responded that even minor movements were not tolerable.  One Agency responded that even very large movements were tolerable; if the noise caused by truck traffic that passed over the irregularities was not too loud. 
    Therefore, other questions are;  Are all agencies the same?  What are their responsibilities?  How are they organized? Who do they employ?  Does the Agency have some sort of a "matrix" organizational system that requires individuals from different disciplines to communicate with each other? How knowledgeable and experienced are the employees?  Can the Agency obtain "expert" advice from people who are not employed by the Agency?  How much authority do the employees have?  Who evaluates performance and do they know how?
    It is a very complex problem because every situation can be different and the best answers will come from educated, experienced and smart people.
    The research mentioned is very important in order to be able to establish a "platform" of information that can be used to make good decisions.



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    Arnold Aronowitz P.E., F.ASCE
    Consultant, Prof.
    Geotechnical Engineer
    Staten Island NY
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  • 4.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-21-2017 12:08 PM
    ​For many of us in the United States, the answer is much simpler (and often more infuriating) than a technical review or study. Road maintenance is directly tied to funding which is often a by-product of political tug-of-ware. Not only is our Nation's infrastructure vastly underfunded to meet the current needs, it is constantly being outpaced by the need for more roads and efficiency improvements in our existing roadways.

    Most politicians run their infrastructure improvement platforms on 'exciting' future projects or 'state-of-the-art' projects rather than unpopular and 'un-sexy' maintenance work. Statistically and historically, voters tend to pass taxes for new projects like stadiums, high speed rails, highway expansion, and tunnel projects which are flashy. However, when it comes time to 'pony-up' tax dollars for increased maintenance for our existing roads, most bills fall flat on their face.

    There isn't an easy solution to our problem but more funding, better government efficiency in spending that money, more University and private funding/grants for R&D, and more innovative products and technologies would be a great start. You have to ask yourself too, would I rather have perfect roads wherever I drive? Or, would I rather have more cash in my pocket? Most folks choose the later.

    RR

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    Randall Rice P.E., M.ASCE
    Golder Associates Inc.
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  • 5.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-22-2017 09:17 AM
    Deferring maintenance leads to less cash in everyone's pockets - owners and users alike.  Take good care of our roads!!!

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    Stephen Mueller P.E., M.ASCE
    President and Owner
    The Stephen Mueller Consultancy
    Littleton CO
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  • 6.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-21-2017 12:26 PM
    ​While all DOTs are somewhat different, FHWA requires that all DOTs have asset management plans that include condition assessment and performance metrics for both bridges and pavements (geotechnical assets are suggested, but not required).There is also a plethora of literature regarding deterioration rates, asset management and repair technologies for all of these assets (NCHRP, TRB, etc.).

    These are all very good questions (and responses), but the main input that DOTs are guided by in their asset management programs is FUNDING. The best asset management program is limited to worst-first repairs if sufficient funding is not available. In may cases, professionals are fully aware of asset management concepts such as life-cycle cost analysis and have ample condition data, but do not have the ability to put these into practice because funding is limited.

    In my opinion, robust design and initial construction quality are the best investments for civil infrastructure. After that, sufficient funding is a tipping point between poor (worst-first) asset management and the more sophisticated asset management you are discussing.

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    Chaz Weaver P.E., PEM, F.ASCE
    DISTRICT MATERIALS ENGINEER
    Stuarts Draft VA
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  • 7.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 06-22-2017 09:15 AM
    Most of us know the concepts of asset management and maintenance but I notice that public works professionals at all levels (from municipalities to DOT) have a hard time communicating and convincing decision makers (politicians) and citizens regarding the need to maintain our existing assets.  In recent years, asset management systems are growing in popularity and many agencies are adopting them.  While these systems have the capability of performing budget and condition needs predictions to help plan for the future, I think their best feature is that they make it very easy to record construction, maintenance, and condition data for all assets.  Over time, the data that is recorded by these systems can be used to make a very convincing argument as to the need for more resources for maintenance.  This data can help tie dollar amounts to expected performance.  
    The only way to convince decision makers to take action is if there is actionable data to back up the claim.  For a long time, many agencies, especially municipal agencies, have not had the historical maintenance and condition data of assets to paint the data-driven story of their deterioration.  With the proliferation of simple and powerful asset management systems, I think we just might be at a time where past trends are about to start to change.

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    Nathan Kebede P.E., M.ASCE
    Pavement Engineer
    Chicago IL
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  • 8.  RE: When to Intervene?

    Posted 07-26-2017 02:49 PM
    If I may, perhaps other dimensions to this question might be:
    a. How to,
    b. Where,
    c. To whom,
    d. About what,
    e. Why, and,
    f. What happens next?

    I recall a P.E., Ph.D., with a great reputation who invested a significant part of his career investigating a serious 
    public health issue in the general Wash., DC, region in the recent past. When the university he worked at learned of his report, they berated  him due to their concerns that "Perhaps now the Feds and State governments will not be so generous with their research funding grants."

    Some years ago I recall other P.E.s who followed professional protocols, and reported eventually to legitimate authorities only to be terminated, and never again hired by other engineering firms nor public agencies.

    Then, we have the "ASCE Report Cards."

    And there are some who would label this 'conversation' "Biting the hands that feed you."

    I recognize that this chat has just begun.

    Thank you for reading and considering my thoughts and opinions.

    Cheers.






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    William Hayden Ph.D., P.E., CP, F.ASCE
    Management Quality By Design, Inc.
    Amherst NY
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