Jesse
Ha!ha! No worries . I understood.
Tom
On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 5:22 PM Jesse Kamm via ASCE Collaborate <
Mail@...> wrote:
My apologies Tom L. You're correct. I figured that out ex post facto but couldn't find an edit button for already posted comments. All the best. ...
Original Message:
Sent: 7/13/2022 5:20:00 PM
From: Jesse Kamm
Subject: RE: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
My apologies Tom L. You're correct. I figured that out ex post facto but couldn't find an edit button for already posted comments. All the best.
------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 07-13-2022 05:09 PM
From: Thomas Lochrane
Subject: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
Jesse
I believe you mean to direct you option to Tom Caffery not me. I personally understand your point of view.
Tom Lochrane PE
On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 3:01 PM Jesse Kamm via ASCE Collaborate <<maskemail>
Mail@...</maskemail>> wrote:
Thomas L. I hear what you're saying too! But why do you jump right into the conspiracy label? It's a conversation my friend. I hope there exists...
| Re: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative | | | | | | Thomas L.
I hear what you're saying too! But why do you jump right into the conspiracy label? It's a conversation my friend. I hope there exists a civic minded middle. The trouble comes when you have two sides claiming a moral higher ground and painting the other as obstructionists, deniers, or worse (you will see this unfold on the other ASCE board on a similar topic). It's no secret that campaigns can and often do tout things like IIJA, or a penny sales tax, as a win in their column when in fact these are mixed bags that have pros and cons - the tendency is to pick and choose which cons we openly talk about and not be honest with one another. We can hope it's just civic minded management of community goods but there's a lot of people jaded and right now I would add are hurting financially in game they feel like can't be won. To me it feels a lot like people in government don't care if people are hurting economically, they have their committees and policies -there's often no middle ground in policy making.
As far as ASCE policy position management goes, Its a difficult place to be in I'll admit. I know there are exceptions but it seems many things are driven by the same buzzword management. I've written a number of funded grants and it's no secret that certain buzzwords are preferred or it wasn't going to be considered. Couple that with just coming off (what I see as an insane) period of irrational fear, shutdowns that destroyed livelihoods and hope, then government policy gifts (PPP) that saved many of those livelihoods at the expense of and right into accelerated inflation. I opine for the notion of avoiding a government that seeks self preservation of the politician and more to the independence of the individual. Yesterday, I noted the ASCE source newsletter has a disclaimer that the articles are AI driven which is interesting because it felt like many of these align with platform democratic talking points. Couple that with ASCE's invitation to a controversial transportation secretary to speak at our national conference. In my opinion, He accepted largely to tout the buzzwords of his platform and what he sees as success in passing the IIJA with ASCE as a prime influence in its passing. My concern is that such actions in itself put ASCE into side choosing. As a member, I don't want ASCE to be an influencer, I want ASCE to be an informer because we represent the collective polarity of views. Plus we're engineering minded people that are thinkers by nature and by education. We don't need or want to be told what to think.
For this particular tax - the question was should ASCE take a stance. I answered I preferred that ASCE take a neutral stance and provide informational pros and cons. Where's the conspiracy in that?
I suspect that you will be taping into bias in forming an opinion of me that tends towards a political framing. But you don't really know me or my stance or my heart for the community or for the way things are managed or how I feel about you, your firm, or your purpose in life. It's a misstep to say opposition as conspiracy. I think that statement embodies my point. The ability to have a conversation seems lost.
------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
------------------------------
| | | | Reply to Group Online View Thread Like | |
Original Message:
Sent: 07-13-2022 02:17 PM | |
| |
Original Message:
Sent: 7/13/2022 2:59:00 PM
From: Jesse Kamm
Subject: RE: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
Thomas L.
I hear what you're saying too! But why do you jump right into the conspiracy label? It's a conversation my friend. I hope there exists a civic minded middle. The trouble comes when you have two sides claiming a moral higher ground and painting the other as obstructionists, deniers, or worse (you will see this unfold on the other ASCE board on a similar topic). It's no secret that campaigns can and often do tout things like IIJA, or a penny sales tax, as a win in their column when in fact these are mixed bags that have pros and cons - the tendency is to pick and choose which cons we openly talk about and not be honest with one another. We can hope it's just civic minded management of community goods but there's a lot of people jaded and right now I would add are hurting financially in game they feel like can't be won. To me it feels a lot like people in government don't care if people are hurting economically, they have their committees and policies -there's often no middle ground in policy making.
As far as ASCE policy position management goes, Its a difficult place to be in I'll admit. I know there are exceptions but it seems many things are driven by the same buzzword management. I've written a number of funded grants and it's no secret that certain buzzwords are preferred or it wasn't going to be considered. Couple that with just coming off (what I see as an insane) period of irrational fear, shutdowns that destroyed livelihoods and hope, then government policy gifts (PPP) that saved many of those livelihoods at the expense of and right into accelerated inflation. I opine for the notion of avoiding a government that seeks self preservation of the politician and more to the independence of the individual. Yesterday, I noted the ASCE source newsletter has a disclaimer that the articles are AI driven which is interesting because it felt like many of these align with platform democratic talking points. Couple that with ASCE's invitation to a controversial transportation secretary to speak at our national conference. In my opinion, He accepted largely to tout the buzzwords of his platform and what he sees as success in passing the IIJA with ASCE as a prime influence in its passing. My concern is that such actions in itself put ASCE into side choosing. As a member, I don't want ASCE to be an influencer, I want ASCE to be an informer because we represent the collective polarity of views. Plus we're engineering minded people that are thinkers by nature and by education. We don't need or want to be told what to think.
For this particular tax - the question was should ASCE take a stance. I answered I preferred that ASCE take a neutral stance and provide informational pros and cons. Where's the conspiracy in that?
I suspect that you will be taping into bias in forming an opinion of me that tends towards a political framing. But you don't really know me or my stance or my heart for the community or for the way things are managed or how I feel about you, your firm, or your purpose in life. It's a misstep to say opposition as conspiracy. I think that statement embodies my point. The ability to have a conversation seems lost.
------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
Original Message:
Sent: 07-13-2022 02:17 PM
From: Thomas Caffery
Subject: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
So, whenever a publicly-funded initiative for infrastructure investment is proposed, it is perceived as a Democratic conspiracy? I think that is just a reflection of how polarized our politics has become--there is no middle ground position, that can be seen as mutually beneficial. Makes it hard for civic-minded engineers to get things done. That's my take, anyway--
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Thomas Caffery P.E., M.ASCE
Transportation Engineer (Retired)
Orlando FL
Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2022 02:11 PM
From: Jesse Kamm
Subject: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
Thomas,
I hear what you are saying. I'm a little sensitive to ASCE's perceived stances lately, throughout the last 2-3 years in particular, feeling a heavy hand towards democratic driven agenda with little regard to sensitivity to other perspectives. Timing is everything. Covid and this inflation makes it worse.
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Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2022 10:03 AM
From: Thomas Caffery
Subject: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
Jesse, I appreciate your comment, but note that the sales tax/Transportation Initiative does not have Mayor Deming's or the Democratic name on it. This is a non-partisan issue, and would extend over several administrations, at 20 years. It makes sense to me, to allow long-range planning & implementation, without having to go back to the ballot every 4 years. Vote on it once, then monitor and adapt/improve.
------------------------------
Thomas Caffery P.E., M.ASCE
Transportation Engineer (Retired)
Orlando FL
Original Message:
Sent: 06-27-2022 08:42 AM
From: Jesse Kamm
Subject: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
I appreciate this post and support the position the leadership intends to take. I would prefer this association assume the role of informer over influencer. Particularly when it is likely for the issue at hand to be assumed as talking points for one or more parties campaign, if/when ASCE's talking points match those of a particular party or campaign platform it becomes off putting.
------------------------------
Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2022 10:48 AM
From: Fraser Howe
Subject: Orange County, FL - Transportation Initiative
On April 26, 2022 the Orange County Board of County Commissioners (BCC) voted to approve the following to be placed on the ballot on November 8, 2022. Find more information at
Transportation Work Sessions (ocfl.net)"Charter County and Regional Transportation System Surtax: Shall a Charter County and Regional Transportation System Surtax at the rate Of one percent (1%) be levied in Orange County, Florida for a period of 20 years with revenue deposited into a trust fund dedicated exclusively to transportation and transit improvement uses authorized by law, with oversight and accountability for the revenue provided by a citizen oversight board and the elected comptroller, as approved by the Board Of County Commissioners? ___ FOR the one-cent sales tax; ___ AGAINST the one-cent sales tax".
The BCC has committed to distribute the $600M from the trust fund: 45% to transit, 45% for improvements to County highways, 10% to municipal projects.
On June 15, 2022 officers of ASCE's East Central Branch (ECB) and institute chairs were asked to vote, via surveymonkey, on how the branch should proceed:
- A vote of "I am for" indicates you support the branch taking a stance that encourages our membership to vote to approve the Tax
- A vote of "I am neutral" indicates you do not want the branch to take a pro/against stance, and we will move forward with unbiased education for our membership
- As discussed, we do not intend to take a stance against the tax ("Axe the tax").
On June 23, 2022 ECB President Melissa Burns advised that, of the 11 votes cast, "
7 to 4 it has been determined that the branch will move forward with a Neutral position on the ballot initiative. We will not be encouraging our membership to vote for/against this bill, but be a neutral educational voice on the topic to the ASCE community."
As a member of the ECB, I have started this thread as a forum for members to discuss their thoughts on this initiative. I encourage all comments, for/against/third way, as long as they are presented in a civil manner.------------------------------
Fraser Howe P.E., F.ASCE
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