Discussion Thread

  • 1.  "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-10-2022 11:20 AM

    In light of how things have changed for many of us over the past few years, I thought it would be interesting to revisit the topic of "Professionalism" and what it means to different people.

    Normally, looking up the definition of the word may help in a conversation like this. In this case, a quick Google search provides us with the following: "a paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification." This leaves a lot of the tertiary things we tend to associate with "being a professional" unaddressed at all.

    For some, working from home in pajamas may be viewed as unprofessional, and to others, the idea of putting on a suit to sit in front of your computer could be seen as unnecessary.

    To some, writing an email (or even a text/slack/Teams message) with any level of informal language would be frowned upon, while others find that speaking casually with coworkers to be just fine.

    To me, "professionalism" ties back to having an understanding of the expectations of my role, and carrying them out in a way that maximizes the number of those expectations that I can meet or exceed. Note that this definition, like the one from Google, completely disregards an arbitrary stance or answer as to what is always "correct" for things like dress code and communication style. I think the answer goes beyond those things and is more about what enables you to perform your best work, and interact with your clients and coworkers in the ways that they most prefer. For some, this will mean still wearing suits and speaking to others formally at all times. For others, it may now be a Zoom call while wearing a hoodie, and brainstorming ideas with others around their morning coffee.

    What do you think? Is the concept of what is "professional" changing in different industries? Are we instead finding ways to get back to the core of what it means to be a professional? Or are many of us simply becoming more unprofessional?



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    Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
    Civil Engineer
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  • 2.  RE: "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-11-2022 09:14 AM
    Christopher and others:

    You may be interested in Chapter 6, "What is a Profession, and is Engineering One?" in my book Engineering's Professional-Protection Predicament.

    The chapter defines profession and professional (the latter as a noun and adjective). It also presents criteria for a profession, which answers the first question in the chapter title, and then applies the criteria to engineering in America to answer the second question.

    Stu Walesh
    stu-walesh@...


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    Stu Walesh PhD, PE
    Consultant - Teacher - Author
    219-242-1704
    www.HelpingYouEngineerYour
    Future.com
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  • 3.  RE: "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-11-2022 11:41 AM
    Interesting discussion Christopher. The construct of professionalism is definitely changing. I recently looked at a firm that was interested to have me join them. On their website they all had sport coats sitting in a board room. I thought to myself "Nah, that's not me." Interestingly enough they were a firm known for their creativity. But, their website spoke to a white wall street version.

    I grew up a bit of a counter culture guy. I loved to skate and surf. I love punk and reggae music. I have both arms, full sleeve covered in tattoos. For years I kept them covered feeling apologetic for that side of me, for appreciating art and music in a world of finance and engineering. Especially with my engineering faculty, I loved the way they were curious and always had a " I bet I can make that work" mentality. But I certainly felt like they were a weird version of who they really were inside. For instance, they had a tie on to lecture to kids in t-shirts. Most people don't watch TV at home in their tie. Did they really like wearing that? FWIW, I love the balance between art and design vs. the need for control/standardization/less risk. I think that's true with professionalism too.

    When I watch my mentors and the titans of industry from the generation before me, the people I admire for their brains...I see someone that I certainly do not identify with (even though I'm a white male - which is another topic I find interesting with the DEI movement for a different post - skin color isn't the only thing the "I look around and feel like no one looks like me" discussion). but I digress, I think of those 1950's NASA engineers and I think "ugh that's not who I want to be". For a while I tried to conform to that. I feel like I still do to some degree to hit the "Professional" mark. 

    I felt so out of my skin that I didn't like who I saw in the mirror. I felt like I had to be that way to earn my PhD, to teach at a university, to work in the professional world. The yelling at one another that came with COVID and how each other thought the other should live their lives a certain way made it far worse. I hope we are on the reflective side of that time and now see some of the errors we made over the past.

    I think context matters a lot! I think about my tattoo artist. He's certainly a professional. His work is immaculate, he's on time and prompt with his communication, but he wears shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops every time I'm with him and of course he's tattooed. At first, we were more formal with each other, now were far more relaxed, and informal with each other after years of working together.

    I work with a lot of churches. Some of them would have theological opinions about my music choices or tattoos. If it's a first time client meeting I will keep my arms covered until I know whom I'm talking with and what their judgements might be. For the most part I feel that people are learning to recognize and accept one another for differences but it's certainly not the first go to impression.

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    Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
    Senior Vice President of Construction Management
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  • 4.  RE: "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-13-2022 10:22 AM
    Thanks for sharing so many thoughts on the subject Jesse! I always enjoy reading about other thoughts on the subject that go in a direction I wasn't thinking of when I started the post.

    I am continually surprised when I hear people mention that they feel out of place in many professional environments due to having tattoos or coming from some sort of counter-culture background. Perhaps I am surprised because most of the people I met in engineering also grew up with such hobbies as skating, surfing, going to metal shows, etc (myself included). This may just be due to going to school in South Jersey (Malcolm Gladwell once painted a picture of engineering students at my school in his podcast titled "My Little Hundred Million"), where many of these scenes thrived at different points. Whatever the reason, I had come to believe that these hobbies and interests were widespread, and so there would naturally be a few people in any field of work or college major who enjoyed them. 

    A number of my friends also have full sleeves (and much more) and work in engineering or other white collar professions. One just finished his PhD as well and he had mentioned to me a few times that "people at his school (specifically in his material science department) didn't look like him." So perhaps these stigmas are slowly degrading, but still hold strong roots in many places at levels that I did not previously realize, and still matter in ways that I did not comprehend.

    I hope that as time continues to pass, these stigmas further disappear, and people like yourself and my friend do not feel out of place in a workforce that is supposed to only judge others on their ability to think critically, and not judge personal aesthetics. The more people of all backgrounds who can contribute to the mix, the better.

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    Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
    Civil Engineer
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  • 5.  RE: "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-14-2022 10:10 AM

    Astonishing point! Christopher Seigel  

    Professionalism it has something related to the practice of an Activity and with good performance (with skill instead of amateurism). 

    Well ,this can change in terms of purpose (I agree with Jesse).. 

    If, we understand that "an Activity" can also "be a Philosophy" and since "We will have to introduce Humanities at the core a new Civil Engineering Education". (As show in ASCE/CEBOK)  

    It means you have to respect ethical  designations required for being a professional at that time!  (the key is to build better world respecting the limitations of that time) 

    Than your professionalism must be linked with Critical Thinking now a days, but not in single direction anymore (its not just technical. . . ). Not only in technical ways, but it means you need to produce a Valued-Based Context&Content Work that runs for the better Integration of Society Systems and knows that engineering purpose will be used of improve our Way of Life, or affect positively in their usage.  A work (A building), it can produce a mix of protection, welfare, resilience, durability, sustainability, accessibility, elegant pattern formation (art), strategic operations, risk reduction and other fields too like health (air quality) and happiness! 

    Professionalism can be an advanced expression that "maybe you have done everything it was possible in your domain within your limitations, to be constructive while expecting to fulfill society expectations at that time. And to close adapt your mind to develop a work that will produce a positive impact for a situation when true a knowledge is available" When you know Why they are Needed (skills) 

    Thank you!  



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    Andre Newinski S.E., A.M.ASCE
    Engenheiro Estrutural
    AN
    Santo Angelo
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  • 6.  RE: "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-15-2022 10:37 AM
    Good point Andre! I didn't stop to think about it before, but I agree that part of being a professional is also related to not only doing the best job for one's client, but also doing the work in a way that best meets other values that may extend beyond the client's scope. This could mean doing things in the most sustainable manner, or the most cost-effective manner (for clients that use public funds). The trick is probably finding the balance when two or more of those values appear to be at odds with each other (such as a more sustainable project being more expensive than a less sustainable one.

    Thanks for helping me to think about this in another way.

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    Christopher Seigel P.E., M.ASCE
    Civil Engineer
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  • 7.  RE: "Professionalism" and What it Means to You

    Posted 04-18-2022 11:36 AM

    Yes Christopher!! That balance is the key to find a fair option. In some ways can be difficult, because appearances can be deceiving. 

    Although it is Vital to get along with it - We play a major role now, since for Engineers, in a all of their designs, We are both are encouraged to try establish a cost-effective consensus that can be analyzed in terms of long term performance & life cycle analysis of the building. So a solution that has a higher price initially , maybe sometimes. . .  convey a better way for the advanced times. 

    All the points must be matched in a equilibrium manner according to what is expected from a "client/and/society" integration - With What Will be the uses of that Structure, as you said too! Trying to pondering the final decision is always Wise.

    thanks too! 



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    Andre Newinski S.E., A.M.ASCE
    Engenheiro Estrutural
    AN
    Santo Angelo
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