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Consulting Engineer Fees

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  • 1.  Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-03-2019 11:58 AM
    No replies, thread closed.

    I work for a small Water District and we are expanding our treatment plant, adding 4 new filters, upgrading pre-treatment as well as building new admin building and laboratories ($11 Million dollars is budgeted).  We are trying to find some references that verify what a reasonable consulting engineering fee is for each of these two phases;

     Phase 1 – 60% Design and Contractor selection

      • Testing of facility, existing capacity stress tests, etc.
      • All calculation for build-out treatment plant process design
      • Consulting engineering (including electrical, architectural, structural, mechanical and process design) for 60% design
      • CMaR (Contractor) selection (including development of contract documents and specifications, scheduling, permitting, and discipline coordination).
    • Phase 2 – Construction Administration (approximately 18 - 22 months)
      • Bring 60% design plans to final design, prepare final construction specification for the Contractor to develop the GMP coordinate and attend engineering and construct-ability work sessions with CMaR (Contractor) and District to develop project within District's budget
      • Review equipment submittals, construction observation, review monthly pay application form CMaR, prepare responses to Request for Information (RFI), handle Change Orders
      • Provide training to treatment plant process start-ups, close-out contract including walk-through and punch-list, assemble O&M manuals, warranties, prepare as-builts, state permitting requirements.

    Does anyone have any industry documents (ASCE, APWA, AWWA, or other..) that we can reference for typical percentages we should expect to pay?

     Thank you in advance!



    ------------------------------
    Wendy Weiman, P.E.
    M.ASCE
    Project Engineer
    Golden CO
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-04-2019 10:58 AM
    No replies, thread closed.
    Hi Wendy.  All I can tell you is I'm going through a similar process right now on a much larger scale and I'd be glad to share my real time information as it becomes available.


    ------------------------------
    Jonathan Hardin M.ASCE
    DIR OF WTR OPS
    Columbia TN
    (931)3757646
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-05-2019 02:42 PM
    No replies, thread closed.
    Wendy:
    Phase 1 items should be much less expensive than phase 2 items.  Phase 1 will include a team, and in Houston TX, would be about 3% of the construction cost estimate.  Phase 2 is more complicated.  Given that it is construction observation by what would probably be a professional engineer, with probably lots of overtime, you should be looking in the range of the median bill out rate for a civil engineer times 2.  Generally this would mean the median salary x 2.5-3.5 x 2..  You need an engineer with a PE and 5-10 years experience.  You can probably quarter this price by hiring someone for your staff to do all this stuff.

    That being said, every project is different, and if full time observation and field engineering judgement is not required, you should be able to reduce the cost significantly, probably removing the price of the second person for overtime at least.

    ------------------------------
    Dwayne Culp, Ph.D., Ph.D.,M.ASCE
    Culp Engineering, LLC
    Rosenberg TX
    (713)898-1977
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-05-2019 07:40 PM
    No replies, thread closed.
    Why don't you take advantage of the University you graduated from. Contact the Civil Engineering department.   They should be the best source for local conditions and should know the qualified firms,   You don't want to get hung up on price alone. Or do you necessarily want  an International Consulting Engineering firm--a Small to Medium size firm, with a known track record, licensed to do business in Colorado, AND with experience in Colorado conditions similar to yours.  I personally did this sort of think over 40 years ago in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.
    Dr. Culp's presentation will be useful for evaluating potential firms--well thought out.


    ------------------------------
    John Bomba P.E.,Dist.D.OE,F.ASCE
    PRINCIPAL
    Houston TX
    (713)8061868
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-06-2019 09:56 AM
    No replies, thread closed.
    Wendy,

    For an $11 million project, the total engineering fee should be between 5% & 7%.  This is based largely on the USDA-Rural Development guidelines shown in their Agreement for Engineering Services: 
    https://www.rd.usda.gov/files/IL1780-19.docx.  Attachment I has a list of fees as a percentage of construction cost and Section B. 3. breaks down the payment schedule.

    As mentioned previously, every project is different, but this should give you a frame of reference to know if the fees you are being presented with are reasonable.

    Good luck!


    ------------------------------
    David Johnson M.ASCE
    Director of Civil Engineering
    David Mason + Associates
    St. Louis MO
    (314) 534-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-06-2019 09:57 AM
    No replies, thread closed.
    ​Assuming construction observation is full time, 13%-15% of overall estimated project costs.

    I'd suggest you develop a Request for Proposal (RFP) and obtain proposals from qualified firms to promote competition and compare experience/qualifications.

    ------------------------------
    Ian Yerdon A.M.ASCE
    C2AE
    Syracuse NY
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-06-2019 12:07 PM
    No replies, thread closed.
    Ian - that was what we were anticipating (13-15% of construction costs for Phase 2).  Do you have a reference that we could cite.  We need to justify the cost and a reference stating this as an industry standard would be helpful.

    Thank you in advance!

    ------------------------------
    Wendy Weiman, P.E.
    P.E.,M.ASCE
    Project Engineer
    Golden CO
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-06-2019 12:07 PM
    No replies, thread closed.
    ​Our DOT here in Missouri (MoDOT) has a graph with a curve on it for the determination of reasonable consulting fees per the project total cost.  They provide the information as assistance to Local Public Agencies (LPAs) on their projects.  You can look up this information on their website as additional benchmark in your search.

    ------------------------------
    Sinan Alpaslan Aff.M.ASCE
    Director of Public Works and Parks Department
    City of University City
    University City MO
    (314)505-8560
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Consulting Engineer Fees

    Posted 05-09-2019 02:50 PM
    No replies, thread closed.
    With the advice of ASCE General Counsel, we will be closing this thread for further comments to prevent violating the ASCE Antitrust Policy. You may review the ASCE Collaborate Code of Conduct here. If you have any questions, please contact ASCE General Counsel Tara Hoke at [email protected].


    ------------------------------
    Tirza Austin Aff.M.ASCE
    Collaborate Coordinator
    ASCE
    Reston VA
    (703)295-6053
    ------------------------------