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  • 1.  Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 19 days ago

    There is an interesting Civil Engineering Source article by Tara Hoke: A Commitment to Zero tolerance requires courage. If not seen – have a look.

    The case exposes – as I see it – a professional dilemma an engineer, for that matter any employee, often faces on options to a certain situation.

    On one hand – there arises a pressure from a controlling boss to compromise ethics to do something untoward. Needless to say that – such pressures come from the power of authority – which means any violation of the order has the threat of dire consequences.

    On the other – there are the societal morals and ethics to which an employee is committed. And there comes the question of the employee's bread-and-butter, family, livelihood and career.

    Let us also not forget that – the controlling boss is also committed to such ethics, certainly on paper. But then the greed for power and profit – and the attitude and arrogance that he or she could do away with any consequences, riding on power-connections, political or otherwise – overrule everything.

    What one must do. In the referred case – the employee, a chief engineer succumbed to the CEO's threat and complied. As I see it – he was trying to save his job by violating his conscience.

    Have a read and reflect. What does courage mean in such a dilemma? Does the courage mean that the engineer should have protested and resigned? Who would have offered him an immediate employment? Does a social system reward such a courage?

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    Dr. Dilip K Barua, PhD

    Website Links and Profile



  • 2.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 19 days ago

    Hi Dilip,

    "Yes, it's been awhile!"

    Addressing "Courage" in tense workplace situations,

    I wonder what and how the findings of the 2018 NIST Report on the "Harassment of Women in Academia, in Schools of Medicine, Engineering and Science" are being addressed, out loud, visible to all(?)

    Cheers,  🖕

    Bill



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    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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  • 3.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 17 days ago

    Thanks for the post, Dilip. I also found Hoke's Source article most interesting. 

    My experience has been that discerning ethical choices is much easier than the dilemma she describes -- telling bosses or clients, "No." For the past several years, I've given ethics seminars to engineering seniors that recount being asked by clients to downplay, hide, or even alter results they disliked. I haven't been fired but such clients aren't repeat customers, either by their choice or mine.

    Bill Mc



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    William McAnally Ph.D., P.E., BC.CE, BC.NE, F.ASCE
    ENGINEER
    Columbus MS
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  • 4.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 17 days ago

    Dilip,

    In addition to the other factors you mentioned, I think another factor in the mix is the mental load of knowingly contributing to something you know is unethical and illegal. Yes, by complying with the scheme you keep your job, but you then have to carry the guilt and also the worry that at any moment the scheme could be revealed.

    While it may not be easy to look being fired in the face in the moment, is it not better to seek new employment with a clean conscience and record than to try to find a job afterward after also being dragged through the legal system and risking the loss of your license? 

    I think there are a couple different courageous options. 

    1- Resign on principle. If he'll cheat someone else, what does that say about his other dealings and the potential to also cheat you?

    2- Refuse to participate in the scheme and notify the licensure board of his actions if he overrides it and changes it without your sign-off. Maybe your courage makes him reconsider. Maybe it doesn't. At the end of the day, all you can directly control are your own actions.

    I don't think saving your job in the short term over an unethical action is ever going to truly pan out in the long term.



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    Heidi C. Wallace, P.E., M.ASCE
    Tulsa, OK
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  • 5.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 17 days ago

    Tara's essay highlights a really difficult situation. One wonders whether this was an isolated case in the firm or whether there were earlier signals of less-than-ethical intent. Regardless, the message for others might be to watch for signals (strong or weak) that raise ethical concerns. Ideally, that would be the time to start looking for other employment opportunities, to avoid being placed in a compromising position. 



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    Mitch Winkler P.E.(inactive), M.ASCE
    Houston, TX
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  • 6.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 12 days ago

    Many good points to brood over. Indeed – the fairness and commitment to societal morals and ethics – broadly the disciplinary foundation must be protected and considered paramount – otherwise a social structure collapses. But, sometimes the constraints of practicality of a certain situation or of one's mental transient state – let people behave one way or the other. All must care for such states with empathy and compassion. 

    Bill Mc's: My experience has been that discerning ethical choices is much easier than the dilemma she describes -- telling bosses or clients, "No.".

    Heidi has many good points and is so right: In addition to the other factors you mentioned, I think another factor in the mix is the mental load of knowingly contributing to something you know is unethical and illegal. Yes, by complying with the scheme you keep your job, but you then have to carry the guilt and also the worry that at any moment the scheme could be revealed. And that one should not sacrifice the long term goal for the sake of some short-term gains. How true!

    And Mitche's: Regardless, the message for others might be to watch for signals (strong or weak) that raise ethical concerns.

    * * *

    I am tempted to highlight a popular game theory – somewhat parallel to but not similar to the Hoke's analysis and story. It's not similar – because as the analysis shows in the cited case – that there is no collusion, but pressure tactic put on a subordinate – one is dominant, the other is dominated. Many know this theory – but for the sake of knowledge I am putting it together.

    Prisoner's Dilemma (first formalized and proposed by Merrill Flood and Melvin Dresher of the RAND Corporation in 1950 – as one of the most popular game theories). In a certain situation – two persons colluded and committed a crime – and taken into custody. There are four scenarios how the situational outcomes of this case could unfold – depending on how each prisoner handles the dilemma – without knowing each other's moves, and each being dominant or independent of the other.

    (1) Both remain silent, faithful to each other playing no real games and serve the full sentencing – both lose; (2) both confess and serve less time in jail for cooperation – again no real game-playing, both win; (3) the first one betrays and confesses and goes free with a sense of winning while the second one serves full-term – a zero-sum game; and (4) the table could turn around – such that the second one betrays and confesses and goes free with a sense of winning, while the first one serves full-term – again a zero-sum game.

    The Prisoner's Dilemma is a case of faithfulness or betraying a partnership – and is an example of simultaneous non-cooperative moves of a symmetric game – and also like the sealed-bid tendering competition. Note that the burden of proof of the confession lies on the administering authority. It's a lawyer, law-enforcement tactic of the judicial processes to elicit information/confession – and is like setting one against the other to bring a case to conclusion.

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    Dr. Dilip K Barua, PhD

    Website Links and Profile




  • 7.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 12 days ago
    • Re: "Who would have offered him an immediate employment? Does a social system reward such a courage?"

    I recall some years ago the exact same situation related to the infamous "Pay To Play" public works schemes.

    Three things emerged:

    1. The offending org/individual firm was fined/fired.
    2. The engineer who provided the evidence of the illegal matters was let go.
    3. That engineer was never again hired to be an engineer by other orgs/firms.

    Not current on where such maters stand today.

    Cheers,

    Bill



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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  • 8.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 10 days ago

    Bill–H, thanks for your comment and for informing us about the "Pay to Play" schemes. The second and the third things that emerged – answer the questions we are discussing about.

    I remember overhearing a conversation once: Are you kidding? They are whipping around. And, at another time, it's so toxic here.

    I wasn't sure about your earlier reply – probably you meant the same thing. We have discussed some of these issues, especially the cultural factors in a discussion thread you floated in 2024 . . . Suggestion for your "Teams".

    As I see it – the issue here is between the dominant and the dominated – between the controller and the controlled. The discussed game theory indicates aspects of it. The message is – don't become dominated, don't become controlled – if you do, you have to live with the aftermath.

    But then in transience, we are both dominant and dominated at some level, at some point. So, the suggestion to remain dominant or in control all the time – in all aspects is unrealistic. How to resolve it? Believe it or not, ancient wisdom have thoughts about it. That – it is wise to be neither aggressive nor passive – it is wise to give the notion of harmonious co-habitation a chance – because it is long term and sustainable.

    And Rebecca has rightly pointed out – it requires the courage of both the dominant and dominated – to come down to the same level of True Reality – not the reality of one or the other.

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    Dr. Dilip K Barua, PhD

    Website Links and Profile




  • 9.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 12 days ago

    When I lecture and counsel on this issue, I always remind people to discuss your course of action with your partners, both business- and life-partners.  Not so that they can necessarily change your necessary course of action, but so that they aren't surprised.  Taking the completely necessary and frequently obvious but really scary course of action can have repercussions that your partners needs to be ready for.  You're not the only one who needs to have courage.  When an engineer calls me back and says, "My partner was totally on board," I say, "You chose wisely."  



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    Rebecca Bowman P.E., M.ASCE
    Sole proprietor
    Rebecca A. Bowman, Esq., P.E.
    Mc Murray PA
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  • 10.  RE: Professional Dilemma and the Consequential Aftermath

    Posted 4 days ago

    Hi All,

    The important takeaway from this article is that the moment when we feel like we have an ethical dilemma, we have resources to run things by.  I have run into ethical situations in the past and I have emailed ASCE's legal (Tara) to talk through my options.  As a professional engineer, I know that I am not alone and I need to utilize my resources.  I recommend that those in sticky situations reach out to their colleagues and ask for help.  

    Thanks!

    -Elias



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    Elias Karam P.E., M.ASCE
    Caltrans
    Marysville CA
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