The legal weight is references are needed for applications. It seems to me not much else could or would occur. I would not expect any board in an official manner to respond to such a question. Possibly board members, particularly after they have cycled off, might discuss in a casual, off the record manner. If I had any concern about someone's competence or abilities (or character), I would not provide a reference.
More ramblings:
As noted in another reply, a lawsuit can occur for about anything. Nonetheless, it would seem unlikely that a reference could be held responsible for actions of someone else, certainly if the reference was not a supervisor or someone working above them for the specific issue causing liability much less some time after the reference was provided. To submit references, a person would most likely have had to complete education, had experience, and passed exams, which all seem to carry legal weight, for determination of "minimal competency." The education and exam might get critiqued (challenged) before a reference would, unlikely also. While the references usually coincide with the experience, they need not be such as references known through ASCE not through employment from my experiences. I have provided references to those getting PEs if they were in classes I instructed and also to a couple folks who I know through ASCE.
In the state where my primary (first) PE license is in, the typical 5 references, 3 of whom have to be a PE and similar for the PS license. I was at a board meeting years ago, do not recall if it was PE or PS board though, when the discussion of references was happening and there was no agreement that the references had to be positive, supporting the application. The board rules only stated the reference has be be provided but nothing about the nature of the reference, so the board members discussed. An applicant had a reference that was not positive but eventually the board determined that satisfied the requirements. The discussion continued that for applicants who were known by any board member, the references they submitted might have some scrutiny that was not possible for the many other applicants not known to board members. There has been no real vetting of references as I have attended~observed about 20 PE and PS board meetings over the years. Much discussion about foreign degrees and if the appropriate chemistry lab was taken or if the physics was calculus based seems to occur though.
Licensing jurisdictions (50 states + 5 territories & DC) each have their own laws and rules, so no entire US issue. NCEES Model Law and Model Rules are guides and many jurisdictions are not in-line with these documents. The "nonpublic records" words caught my attention at the end of the following
NCEES Model Rules:
230.30 References
References are individuals who have personal knowledge of an applicant and are able to assess an applicant's experience, ability, character, or reputation.
A. For licensure as a professional engineer or professional surveyor, an applicant must submit five
references, three of whom shall be professional engineers, professional surveyors, or other individuals
deemed acceptable to the board, who have personal knowledge of the applicant's engineering or
surveying experience. In addition, for each employment period, individuals familiar with the
applicant's experience for that period must be identified. Engineering applicants must have
professional engineer references, and surveying applicants must have professional surveyor
references.
B. Relatives may not be used as references.
C. No current board member shall be used as a reference.
D. Each applicant should inform the individuals being used as references that they will be sent a
reference form to complete and return.
E. It is the responsibility of the applicant to ensure that the individuals giving the reference return a
completed reference form to the board within a reasonable time. All reference materials must be
complete before any board action may be taken on an application.
F. References are considered to be confidential, nonpublic records that will not be divulged except as required by law.
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David Devine P.E., L.S., M.ASCE
Fort Wayne IN
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2024 08:25 PM
From: Christian Parker
Subject: PE References for Licensure
State licensure boards require references from other PEs for new applicants' listed experience. Does anyone know what legal weight is associated with being a PE reference? Are references vetted? Could they be held liable for a new licensee?
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Christian Parker P.E., M.ASCE
Structural Project Engineer
Chicago IL
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