Discussion: View Thread

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William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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Bill, thanks for sharing with us your thought processes on various engineering issues. Your reviewers must have enriched the presentation.

• I would like to add a few lines on "We Meet Code!" response by engineering entities, presumably by those responsible for design and construction. I trust that this response is established as the general response established by questionnaire statistics, etc. If that is the case, I would be inclined not to blame them if they have complied with 'Code' rather than 'Model Code' The difference between the two are well-known, also summarized in The Grammar of Industrialization – Standards, Codes and Manuals.

• Further, contractors rightly point out that many different codes are not consistent – we have discussed that in the tragic case of Grenfell Tower Inferno in London.

• Without being brash in commenting on the Standards and Codes writing institutions – one can generally points to some important facts – that the robustness of such minimum checklists they produce depends on the depth of knowledge and understanding, and experience of the writers and reviewers. Do they always pass this criterion? I happened to come across a case where a code writing member was selected based on God knows what criterion.

Dilip

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Dr. Dilip K Barua, Ph.D

Website Links and Profile

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2023 10:31 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Infrequent Disasters Happen!

When we ask building managers how well they think their fire evacuation plan will perform,

 the most frequent response:

"We Meet Code!"

Please review the attached slide deck and offer your add/delete thoughts.

Cheers,

Bill

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William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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In one of my sites at Kanjirappally, this incident happened. The shed was not designed by me. Only after the roof collapse I came there and suggested an RCC sandwich to foundation intermediate between foundation and basement. He summoned me to come there doubting the strength of the foundation . RRM foundation. 

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Alex Thomas R.Eng, C.Eng, M.ASCE
Senior Site Engineer
Geo Structurals Pvt Ltd
CochinAlexThomasR.Eng, C.Eng, M.ASCEIndia
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2023 12:31 PM
From: Dilip Barua
Subject: Infrequent Disasters Happen!

Bill, thanks for sharing with us your thought processes on various engineering issues. Your reviewers must have enriched the presentation.

• I would like to add a few lines on "We Meet Code!" response by engineering entities, presumably by those responsible for design and construction. I trust that this response is established as the general response established by questionnaire statistics, etc. If that is the case, I would be inclined not to blame them if they have complied with 'Code' rather than 'Model Code' The difference between the two are well-known, also summarized in The Grammar of Industrialization – Standards, Codes and Manuals.

• Further, contractors rightly point out that many different codes are not consistent – we have discussed that in the tragic case of Grenfell Tower Inferno in London.

• Without being brash in commenting on the Standards and Codes writing institutions – one can generally points to some important facts – that the robustness of such minimum checklists they produce depends on the depth of knowledge and understanding, and experience of the writers and reviewers. Do they always pass this criterion? I happened to come across a case where a code writing member was selected based on God knows what criterion.

Dilip

-------

Dr. Dilip K Barua, Ph.D

Website Links and Profile

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2023 10:31 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Infrequent Disasters Happen!

When we ask building managers how well they think their fire evacuation plan will perform,

 the most frequent response:

"We Meet Code!"

Please review the attached slide deck and offer your add/delete thoughts.

Cheers,

Bill

------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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I do not think there is anything fundamentally wrong with meeting code. Otherwise, the purpose of a code is defeated. Maybe if you asked about unique features of their building or circumstances that might create evacuation issues in an emergency, you might get a more thoughtful response; and give them pause for thought.

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Mitch Winkler P.E.(inactive), M.ASCE
Houston, TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2023 10:31 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Infrequent Disasters Happen!

When we ask building managers how well they think their fire evacuation plan will perform,

 the most frequent response:

"We Meet Code!"

Please review the attached slide deck and offer your add/delete thoughts.

Cheers,

Bill

------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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Thanks to each and all for their reply.

• "I do not think there is anything fundamentally wrong with meeting code."

Well, meeting code turns out to be "The minimum required."

Re: "Maybe if you asked about unique features of their building or circumstances that might create evacuation issues in an emergency,. . . "

Q. So, given the normal population of buildings for schools,, health care, retirement, etc., who ought to be the one to ask such questions?

So far, to the best of my limited knowledge, seems what controls asking such questions has to do with competition for funds within the ownership

of the facility.

Cheers,

Bill

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William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2023 11:23 PM
From: Mitchell Winkler
Subject: Infrequent Disasters Happen!

I do not think there is anything fundamentally wrong with meeting code. Otherwise, the purpose of a code is defeated. Maybe if you asked about unique features of their building or circumstances that might create evacuation issues in an emergency, you might get a more thoughtful response; and give them pause for thought.

------------------------------
Mitch Winkler P.E.(inactive), M.ASCE
Houston, TX

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2023 10:31 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Infrequent Disasters Happen!

When we ask building managers how well they think their fire evacuation plan will perform,

 the most frequent response:

"We Meet Code!"

Please review the attached slide deck and offer your add/delete thoughts.

Cheers,

Bill

------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.

"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
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