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  • 1.  Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 23 days ago

    An ASCE SOURCE News Article posted on 2025 Dec 29 reveals that US Federal Gov does not consider engineers as professionals. It caught me by surprise – haven't heard this before.

    When read through the article – it seems however the highlighted premise is not what it seems. The Federal definition is rather applied to categorize who can or cannot qualify for certain amount of student loans.

    Nevertheless – there may be deeper issues than this – as some states are considering to abolish engineering licensure requirement altogether.

    Have a read – reflect and react.

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    Dr. Dilip K Barua, PhD

    Website Links and Profile





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  • 2.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 22 days ago
    Warm greetings,
    dear Professor, Barua
     
    I share the same sense of surprise you felt when reading the article. Perhaps the writer intentionally used this style to draw readers into completing the piece - and indeed, he succeeded, while what we were left with was the surprise itself.
    Regarding what you mentioned about the direction some states are taking concerning the profession, this is truly an interesting matter. It raises a question that has long occupied the professional community - not only locally, but perhaps globally as well:
    Is the accreditation granted through the PE license sufficient to make an engineer "professional enough"?
    The question may appear controversial on the surface, yet it is a powerful catalyst for rethinking many of the traditional concepts of the profession.
    I was very pleased to read your post today, and I wish you a happy new year filled with the best of hopes and success.


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    Abubakr Gameil, R. ENG, M. ASCE®️, SEI Member
    Chairman & Director General
    Almanassa Engineering International Co. Ltd
    Khartoum, Sudan
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  • 3.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 18 days ago

    Abubakr – thank you for the thoughtful reactions on the issue.

    On your highlighted question – you may have some answers in your mind. In line with 4.1 Engineering Profession section of the Standards, Codes and Manuals Essay – I like to address it by asking:

    What is professionalism? The answers to this question are vague and not congruently singular.

    Let us attempt to answer it in a different way in simple terms. A person while viewing something, and when developed a pleasant or admirable impression of that something, may likely say: it's so professional!

    This impression says a lot about professionalism. That the piece work: an engineering project, study report or structure – or a scientific investigation – or an administrative or management decision – or a literary, fine arts or intellectual analysis piece – or a judicial or political decision – is neat and smart in its presentation – resulting from such attributes as skilled workmanship, mutual trust, integrity, due diligence, aesthetics, non-biased objective view of things, responsibility and accountability, causes ↔ conditions of systems, respectfulness in dealings, etc. If the impression is different – people react unapprovingly.

    Or in another context, one may say: I am a professional writer, a singer, an artist, a doctor, a nurse, a lawyer, a scientist, an engineer, etc. In all these cases, people identify their profession or what they do –as a way of earning a living.

    Let us ask a follow-up question. How much of this piece of work is dependent on regulatory licenses. The answer is definitely 'not much' – if one is honest in answering.

    The reason for this answer is that many of the highlighted pieces of professional works or profession are the result of training – that start from childhood parental rearing to school works to our own volitional learning and pursuits. We develop certain intuition of skill, integrity, responsibility and accountability – irrespective of where we live. This intuition has nothing to do with compliance regulations.

    Therefore, it is reasonable to say that professionalism cannot be ensured by some compliance guidelines or checklist – much of it depends on personal commitment to be skillful – to value respectfulness and mutual trust – to excel – to be smart.

    Then, why regulations and why there is a need for Balance. Regulations are Procedural Control Structures by definition – instead of felicitation and encouragement – they are Mechanistic and inhibit Freedom, Creativity and Innovation. They are a bureaucratic, rigid and compliance framework – of impositions, constraints and hurdles.

    But, a social structure cannot function without laws and regulations. Driving license regulation is a prime example. But, then the question is how much regulation is too much. Therefore, the necessity of finding a balance comes to the forefront.

    As I understand it, in the case of legislative attempt in 2025 to abolish the system of individual professional engineering licensure in Florida – the intention was to streamline operations for efficient management (It's a public knowledge now, as some websites have pieces discussing the issue). It aimed to eliminate the state institution of the Florida Board of Professional Engineers – in favor of strengthening one regulatory entity, the Department of Business and Professional Regulation – in favor of business licensing by removing the layer of individual licensing. In the face of vehement opposition from stakeholders – the attempt was not successful.

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    Dr. Dilip K Barua, PhD

    Website Links and Profile



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  • 4.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 16 days ago

    The list of professions under the student loan program was first compiled in 1965.  Reviewing it below, it appears to be antiquated.  With the rise of armchair engineers on social media, I think it is more important than ever to define our position in the public forum.

    • Pharmacy (Pharm.D.)
    • Dentistry (D.D.S. or D.M.D.)
    • Veterinary medicine (D.V.M.)
    • Chiropractic (D.C. or D.C.M.)
    • Law (J.D. or L.L.B.)
    • Medicine (M.D.)
    • Optometry (O.D.)
    • Osteopathic medicine (D.O.)
    • Podiatry (D.P.M., D.P., or Pod.D.)
    • Theology (M.Div. or M.H.L.)
    • Clinical psychology (Psy.D. or Ph.D.) 


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    Chad Morrison P.E., F.ASCE
    Professional Engineer
    Greenville RI
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  • 5.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 16 days ago

    The federal definition of a "professional" is one requiring an advanced degree.  I recall this as being a driver of the discussion ASCE had in the late 90s, early 00s of the MS for a PE. But the profession rejected that. So it is not a surprise to me that folks are now finding out that engineering is not a "profession" but a commodity in the eyes of the federal government. Frankly, it is viewed that way by business in general in my opinion. Engineers have not promoted themselves and have actively fractionalized and encouraged commoditization of the profession. Architects are the latest victim of this definition and I have been following their response to this realization. 



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    Gregory Scott P.E., F.ASCE
    SENIOR ENGINEER
    Crafton PA
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  • 6.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 15 days ago
      |   view attached

    Thank you @Dilip Barua for starting this conversation. Our Government Relations Team has put a memo together. I've attached it here. If you have any questions you can reach out to our GR team at govwash@...



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    Tirza Austin
    Senior Manager, Online Community
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    1801 Alexander Bell Drive
    Reston, VA 20191
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  • 7.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 15 days ago

    Thank you Tirza, for sharing the MEMO,

    And my deep appreciation to the colleagues, the thoughtful leaders, and the beautiful minds who helped create this momentum.

    What we have witnessed in this thread is far more than an exchange of viewpoints. It is an inspiring demonstration of how our professional community can generate precise knowledge, elevate concerns into structured dialogue, and transform regulatory questions into mature institutional discourse that strengthens the profession.
     
    The contributions shared here-insightful questions, thoughtful analyses, and the timely memorandum provided by ASCE-collectively form a remarkable example of how constructive engagement can shape policy awareness and reinforce the identity of our profession and safeguard it for future generations.
     This is the kind of dialogue that not only informs but empowers, and it reflects the very best of what a professional community can achieve when its members think deeply and collaborate openly.
    I will build on this momentum in an upcoming post, where I plan to explore several themes raised in this discussion and propose practical pathways for advancing professionalism - chief among them, the role of high‑quality continuing education as a true lever for professional growth.


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    Abubakr Gameil, R. ENG, M. ASCE®️,
    MSc-Holder, [ SEI, EWRI, CI, ISSMGE ]-Mermber
    Chairman & Director General
    Almanassa Engineering International Co. Ltd
    Khartoum, Sudan / UAE- Humanitariam Residency
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  • 8.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 11 days ago

    Hello Dilip,

    Thank you for bringing this up. I agree that the headline might be misleading - the federal definition in the article mainly relates to eligibility for student loans, not a judgment on the professionalism of engineers.

    However, the point about potential changes in state licensure requirements is indeed important. Licensure ensures that engineers meet standards for safety, ethics, and technical competence. If some states remove licensure requirements, it could impact public trust and the perceived professionalism of the field.

    It would be interesting to see a discussion on how professional societies like ASCE could continue to advocate for high standards, even if regulatory requirements shift. Ensuring continuous education, ethical guidelines, and voluntary certifications could help maintain professional recognition.

    Best regards,
    Darya Stanskova



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    Darya Stanskova M.ASCE
    Cost Estimator, Construction Engineer, Power Engineer, Project Manager
    Fort Myers FL
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  • 9.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 10 days ago

    As U.S. Army Brigadier General Anthony McAuliffe responded to the German Army request for U.S. to surrender at Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944 ---- "Nuts".

    Engineers are professionals.  Period.  We should settle for nothing less or else we will get on a slippery slope that will take us to places where our value will be diminished and our service will be marginalized.

                       



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    James Holland EIT, M.ASCE
    Alexandria VA
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  • 10.  RE: Engineers are not Professionals?

    Posted 10 days ago
    What I find most interesting in this thread is the memo posted and shared by Tirza a few days ago by ASCE stating the following: 

    "For years, there has been a growing trend at the state level to deregulate or erode the
    standards and bodies that protect and govern the Professional Engineer (P.E.) license

    by eliminating continuing education requirements, shrinking or consolidating boards of
    professional engineers, and other similar actions.
    "

    I would be interested in discovering if the shrinking of the ASCE board may be correlated to this trend. 

    - Donovan