Discussion: View Thread

The public perception of engineering communication skills

  • 1.  The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-29-2019 02:50 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-29-2019 02:49 PM
    In a discussion with my non-engineering friends, there seems to be a public perception that engineers don't know how to properly communicate. 

    When I contrast that with many of the engineers I know, and the latest Plot Points podcast episode which was all about <g class="gr_ gr_787 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="787" data-gr-id="787">communication</g><g class="gr_ gr_787 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Style multiReplace" id="787" data-gr-id="787"> ,</g> there seems to be a disconnect.

    How do you think we begin to change this public perception?

    ------------------------------
    Stephanie Slocum P.E., M.ASCE
    Founder
    Engineers Rising LLC
    www.engineersrising.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-29-2019 05:40 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-29-2019 05:39 PM
    First, if I may, given you are an engineer, using your experiences to attempt to measure this variable is probably not a good sample.

    Next, where is the data/information basis for this assertion, i.e., who makes up this 'public'?

    In my limited experiences with this topic, the most frequent response from engineers takes the general form of 
    "The facts speak for themselves."

    The word "Communication" itself is to broad a target.

    One would need to deconstruct it in order to learn anything of value.

    I know, not too helpful.

    "What we have here is a failure to communicate"
    --Line from a movie w/Paul Newman.


    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-29-2019 09:23 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-29-2019 09:23 PM

    Mr. Hayden makes a great point. So, I submit for discussion a little research I've found on this topic. This is all very unscientific (via a Google search). Interesting to me, I didn't find any data supporting that civil engineers have this issue (although I will say I've witnessed it during my career, most often when explaining technical concepts to a non-technical person). Curious to hear what others think.

    1. ASME paper, which states:  "In a recent survey completed by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, 52 percent of mechanical engineering department heads considered the written and oral communication skills of their mechanical engineering graduates to be strong, ........Unexpectedly, a parallel survey of industry representatives found almost opposite results, with only 9 percent considering the communication skills of recent mechanical graduates to be strong............. Given these results were gathered from 68 mechanical engineering
    department heads and more than 1000 engineers and managers, a disparity clearly exists between the communication skills we are teaching to engineering students and what industry expects our students to know."

    2. Misc. "pop culture" blogs, articles, or shows:
    a. "Speak English, Not Engineer"
    b. New York Times, "Tech's Damaging Myth of the Loner Genius Nerd", which states "In the tech industry, the lack of interpersonal skills has become a weakness and a liability."
    c. Autodesk article, discussion of reasons for communication issues between architects and engineers (they assert it's largely due to education differences)
    d. interestingengineering.com article (engineering community with 9 million people), "The World Needs More Engineers Who Can Communicate"
    e. Business Insider, "15 Best Jobs for Bad Communicators"; about half were related to computer engineering 
    f. TV shows such as the "Big Bang Theory" also perpetuate this idea.

    3. Misc. engineering communication groups, such as IEEE Professional Communication Society. This blog article there, for example, starts with "For the engineers that I have taught, one of the most challenging communication tasks is explaining scientific concepts to less technical audiences, such as the general public...."

    4. Youtube video, Institute of Chemical Engineers (IChemE) discussing "Why Do Engineers Struggle To Communicate?"

    5. PMI Institute (there are many civil engineers with this certification), <g class="gr_ gr_5536 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Grammar only-ins doubleReplace replaceWithoutSep" id="5536" data-gr-id="5536">article</g> on the art of communication and costs of improper communication




    ------------------------------
    Stephanie Slocum P.E., M.ASCE
    Founder
    Engineers Rising LLC
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 08:31 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-30-2019 08:31 AM
    Another reference worth our time to read and consider is available from Google Scholar:

    "Communication Skills for the 21st Century Engineer"

    Marc J. Riemer

    UNESCO International Centre for Engineering Education (UICEE)
    Faculty of Engineering, Monash University, Clayton, Melbourne, VIC 3800, Australia

    I found this author to open the dialogue regarding engineers and various dimensions of communications
    quite broadly.

    Perhaps our collective challenge professionally is revisit this 21st Century challenge by viewing
    familiar issues from unfamiliar perspectives.


    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills
    Best Answer

    Posted 01-30-2019 11:18 AM
    Edited by Stephanie Slocum 06-04-2019 04:04 PM
    ​Since the original question asks about the public perception that engineers communicate poorly, I will just focus on the public communication aspects.

    As an engineer in the transportation industry, nearly all my projects involve communication with the public, often as a requirement at particular milestones during the life of a project. As a result, I have participated in numerous public and community meetings, leading some, and also speaking as part of a larger team of engineers from multiple firms. As such, I have observed many engineers in a public communication setting.

    There are a few common themes that characterize engineering communications in public settings:

    1. We tend to inform rather than educate.  For example, an engineer might present a project at a public meeting, saying, "We are going to reconstruct the entire intersection, add street lighting, widen the sidewalks, and eliminate a left turn lane. The construction will take 2 years and will start next spring." It's at this point that the audience usually begins to express concerned about the impacts. The engineer will then tell them that several options were investigated and determined that the option being pursued is the best one based on "the engineering." (i.e. Trust us. We're the "experts.") Had the engineer explained that they developed an extensive vehicular, bicycle, and pedestrian traffic control plan to ensure access to homes and businesses was maintained throughout construction, the location and direction of each street light was carefully selected to prevent light spillover on adjacent properties, sidewalks were widened and the turn lane eliminated to decrease crossing distances for pedestrians to improve safety and reduce the number of potential conflicts between vehicles and pedestrians/cyclists; the message might have caused far less alarm and resulted in more constructive discussion.
    2. We forget that listening is part of communication, and communication is a two-way street. While we understand that our clients have limited budgets and limitations on what they can provide within the public realm, we still have a duty to listen to the public concerns and try to address them as best we can within the scope and budget of the project. While participants often have competing views, if we focus the discussions around what we can all agree on, then discuss the tradeoffs on those things we can't, it usually results in much more productive and engaging dialog.
    3. The words we use matter. Often we hear engineers describing their projects using words like "improvements, " or "upgrades." In reality, this is often not the case for all parties impacted by a project. For example, if a highway is to be "improved by adding lanes, that often means acquiring more land to do it. In most cases, the person whose land is being acquired does not feel the same way. One of our engineers wrote an article for ITE a couple of years ago, that provides some excellent food for thought on this topic: https://swbikeinitiative.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/ite_language_reform-by-ian-lockwood-pdf.pdf
    4. Engineering communications tend to occur infrequently and late in the game.  Typically, transportation projects go to the public for the first time around 30% design, when most of the major decisions are made, and the detail design phase begins. They often don't go back to the public until the design is nearly complete. Many times, I have seen comments dismissed out of hand because the engineers and clients alike feel the design has progressed too far to make additional changes. While it costs a little more up front, engaging the public earlier in the design process, and providing more frequent updates along the way often leads to better project outcomes. People are generally more supportive of a project if they feel like they have been involved in the decision-making process, even when those decisions involve compromise.
    And one last thought on engineering communications: When I went to school, engineers were required to take technical writing and public speaking courses. They focused on things like writing technical reports and the mechanics of making presentations. Over the past 30 years in the industry, I have learned that the most valuable communication skill is the ability to tell a compelling story. Storytelling ability helps engineers in our interactions with clients, coordinating agencies, and the public; it helps us win work. Most importantly storytelling ability helps us make the case for change, whether it is change brought on by a project or change within our industry. My vote would be for a college course that focuses on storytelling and making persuasive arguments, rather than the typical technical writing or public speaking courses.

    ------------------------------
    Melany Alliston-Brick, P.E., M.ASCE
    Civil Engineering Practice Director, North America
    Toole Design Group, LLC
    Silver Spring, MD
    (571) 830-4272
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 11:20 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-30-2019 11:19 AM
    Sorry, but you guys are driving me nuts by over-analyzing this subject with surveys, statistics, etc. I see two simple issues:

    1.  General ability of engineers to speak effectively in public. 

    2.  An engineer's ability to organize complex issues and present them in a manner so that the public (including non-technical decision makers) get it. 

    As for 1.  Some people are born with this ability and some are not. Coached practice helps. I try to start young engineers off by assigning minor presentations in order to assess and coach their public speaking abilities. Lots of on-line resources for this also.  Several hopeless cases I've even sent to Toastmasters International, with decent results. 

    As for 2..  This capability almost always needs to be taught or coached. I always ask presenters-to-be:  What are the 3 or 4 (at most) main points that need to be conveyed?  And who is the audience?  Then we storyboard it together and come up with an effective script. After a while, as they get more experience presenting, most engineers start to get it.  The ones that don't get it aren't sent to give critical presentations, lol. 

    That's my two cents.

    ------------------------------
    Bevin Beaudet P.E., M.ASCE
    President/Owner
    Bevin A. Beaudet, P.E., LLC.
    West Palm Beach FL
    (561)373-4442
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 01:20 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-30-2019 01:19 PM
    Bevin,

    I agree with you - Let's not over-analyze this pretty simple issue. It's no secret that public speaking is one of those "scary things" that does haunt a large majority of people even to the point of being traumatized by it. Most are automatically at a disadvantage right away due to that one simple fact. I think many of us (engineers) dabble in the Asperger's zone which adds another difficult element to deal with.

    I would add a number 3 to your list and the general discussion, and that would be the written word specifically. I've found that many young engineers just can't write very well. Unfortunately, it is critically important to their success.

    To get back to the original question posed by Stephanie and to tie my previous remark to it, I believe that there are a number of necessary professional activities that are simply not addressed in school. Why? I think the people who set curriculum don't believe in or understand their importance. Unfortunately, the people who set educational policy don't have 30 years of practice under their belt and just don't get it.

    In my (frequently less than) humble opinion ;-), personal time management, basic business concepts, public speaking, writing, etc are simply more important for successful participation in the engineering field than "World Religions". The idea that the latter should trump what ultimately will be expected of engineers in order to be successful in their practice of engineering is archaic. Western Education's idea that having a "well-rounded," liberal arts-type experience is so important that basic components of the MAJOR field of study should be left behind would be comical if it wasn't so important an issue. On the occasions that I have had the pleasure of asking college professors why a "well-rounded" education is so important, I'm looked at like I have two heads, six tails, and my eyes in my knees. I'm obviously not a very intelligent person. Yet, when pressed beyond the initial scoff response, I've never had even one of them be able to give me an answer.

    In non-western educational systems, there is no emphasis on becoming a part-time Rhodes Scholar. If you want to be a doctor, you study medicine and the ancillary components supporting that endeavor. Western education is not very competitive in this sense and my observation is that it's evident in the final product - the college graduate. Yes, I understand that I am generalizing, but it's a shame that my statements should be seen as a generalization in the first place. Isn't it?

    Mark Risch P.E., M.ASCE
    Owner, Principal Engineer
    Corona Design Group
    Bend, OR
    (541) 862-1471

    ------------------------------
    Mark Risch P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal Engineer
    Bend OR
    (541)862-1471
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 03:48 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-30-2019 03:47 PM
    Good post, Mark. I did neglect to mention written communication skills, which are critically important. 

    As to lack of understanding of engineering practice needs in Academia, I have found this to be true as well, but it depends on the school and their engineering professors. Many Universities with engineering schools now hire "Professors of Practice."  These professors must not only be academically qualified but also have many years of actual practice under their belts. I totally endorse this concept.

    ------------------------------
    Bevin Beaudet P.E., M.ASCE
    President/Owner
    Bevin A. Beaudet, P.E., LLC.
    West Palm Beach FL
    (561)373-4442
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 06-04-2019 05:46 PM
    Edited by Timothy Murphy 06-05-2019 02:29 AM
    Mark,
     (I know this response comes months after you posted, but I'm reading it for the first time).

    I just want to clarify that the reason schools include required Humanities courses like 'World Religions' is due to ABET.   So to be accredited CE programs,  ABET requires that graduates must have at least 12 credits of Humanities and Social Sciences.  But I believe most CE program curricula include basic business, speaking, and writing courses that you mention.   I know my program did 30 years ago when I was a student, and I know the university where I teach also has those requirements.   There certainly are people who agree with your argument that that these Humanities courses are unnecessary.  I understand your perspective, though I don't agree with it. (and, FYI, I am not just an academic. I do have over 15 years of professional experience.)   I think our students are better off understanding concepts that aren't directly technical; that broaden their understandings culturally and historically.  In fact, this entire thread is dedicated to understanding why CEs are not good communicators with non-technical audiences.  To be able to connect with people who are non-technical, it helps to have some common understanding of non-technical ideas.   So pigeon-holing CE students in courses only directly applicable to the profession of CE is only going to make matters worse.   We're not trying to create Rhodes scholars, but we do need students who understand society and cultural contexts, particularly in an increasingly global profession.   

    But rather than argue which is a more valid approach to teaching CE students, I can tell you that under the current political climate, if Humanities and Social Science courses were removed from the curriculum, they wouldn't be replaced with courses more directly associated with the CE profession.   They would just be eliminated.   Colleges are under pressure from statehouses to reduce the number of credits required to graduate.  The dwindling number of graduation credits is a challenge to our profession, and the ballooning costs of higher education have non-educators trying to make it easier to graduate as the solution.   If not for ABET, these "unnecessary" courses would just get the axe and CE students wouldn't get new CE-focused courses to replace them.​

    My last comment is more general, and perhaps only tangentially related to the original topic.   As an undergraduate, I took a technical writing course and a professional speaking course.   I feel I learned from those courses, but those courses did not make be a good writer or speaker.  I felt I was a decent writer in graduate school until my Master's advisor bled red ink all over my draft thesis.   But it helped me improve, and then I believed I was a good writer . . .  until my first boss bled red ink all over my first professional report.  My point is that writing and speaking are learned not in a class, but through lots of experience and with dutiful and responsible oversight from managers.   Hopefully students will graduate with a basic understanding of organization, grammar, and spelling, (I'm afraid these areas are getting worse in the texting generation), but I challenge all of us older engineers to provide young engineers the service of critical editing.   It's not fun to do, and it's not fun for the young engineer to receive criticism (I was devastated that my first boss destroyed my writing), but I am so grateful he helped me grow.   I have seen some managers (and faculty) ignore this important responsibility we have and it's a problem.   If asked "What is the worst part of your job", I'm pretty sure 100% of my colleagues would reply "reading student reports".   In my experience engineers don't like reading reports, as critically important they may be.  And they dislike editing reports even more.  But it's so important that we do to help our younger generation learn.

    ------------------------------
    Timothy Murphy M.ASCE
    Professor
    Trine University
    Angola IN
    (260) 665-4216
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 11:43 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-30-2019 11:42 AM
    The fact is, from my 50 years of experience, is that most engineers do not have the skills to communicate orally or through writing, with non-engineers.

    When taking public speaking in college in the 1960's, the instructor continually embarrassed us engineer's by asking simple, common sense questions during our presentations.  His purpose was to make us understand that we must address the listener in a manner that reaches their background.

    In the past, engineers communicated with engineers.  Today, most clients do not have engineers.  We must communicate with lay persons. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT ENGINEERS COMMUNICATE WITH NON ENGINEERS IN A  MANNER THAT IS IN CONTEXT WITH THEIR BACKGROUND.  

    I learned story telling from my grandfather.  I also honed my written skills with my first boss who was an English major. If you can size up your client's background, and put the discussion in a context of their background, the communication channels open.

    Communication must be studied as much as the technical aspects to fully develop as an engineer. It is a skill that is critical to success.



    ------------------------------
    Peter Fadden P.E., M.ASCE
    Retired
    Walworth NY
    585-802-8237
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 01:19 PM
    Peter,

    Spot on.

    Mark Risch P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal Engineer/ Owner
    Corona Design Group
    Bend, OR
    (541)862-1471

    ------------------------------
    Mark Risch P.E., M.ASCE
    Principal Engineer
    Bend OR
    (541)862-1471
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 01-30-2019 04:23 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 01-30-2019 04:22 PM
    "I see two simple issues."
     
    "Let's not over-analyze this pretty simple issue."
     
                                  Compared to. . ..
     
    "Communication must be studied as much as the technical aspects to fully develop as an engineer. It is a skill that is critical to success."
     
    Reflection
    It appears that, over time, our separation at a relatively young age within separate schools of learning in higher technical education have developed narrowly focused technology experts who believe themselves to be at the center of critical technology knowledge.

    And a belief that the acquisition of comparable levels of knowledge regarding collaborating, cooperating, and communicating with people can somehow be mastered by attending an occasional seminar, dialing into a webinar, reading a few papers, and having some candid discussions.

    Really?

    Surveys of project managers have shown that no less than 70% of project problems are due to unresolved issues involving people, processes, and leadership. Less than 30% of such problems involve technology issues.

    Before we can be trustworthy communicators to project stakeholders and the public-at-large, we need to start within our firms, right at project start-up meetings when the question is offered:

    "Does anyone have any questions or concerns?"
     
     


    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-11-2019 08:55 PM

    As a communication professional with 8 years' experience working for ASCE on Geo-Strata magazine, I find this topic fascinating. I'm not an engineer, nor am I particularly scientific, or mathematic. I often did not understand the technical nature of the articles I edited for Geo-Strata, and I thanked my lucky stars for the volunteers who did the technical reviews. What I've learned is that engineers tend to communicate in passive tense, using academic language, as if all of their communication is for a journal article, a technical report, or a classroom lecture. Very few of the engineers whose articles I edited were able to meet an "informal" tone when "talking shop." 

    Ask yourself this one question when you're going to communicate to non-engineers: "How would I say this at a backyard barbecue with my neighbors, beverage of choice in hand?" If your word choice isn't going to work for your neighbors while you wait for the hot dog to be done, it's not going to work for your non-engineer audience.  


    ------------------------------
    Suzanne Davenport Aff.M.ASCE
    Tesla Government, Inc.
    Vienna VA
    (703)942-6930
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-12-2019 12:58 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-12-2019 12:58 PM
    Thank you, Suzanne, for your thoughtful post about communicating to non-engineers.  All of us should ask the question: why is this important? Mainly because those who make decisions regarding our projects, including whether or not to fund them, are most often non-technical.  Also because the public, who influence those decision makers (and who ultimately pay the bill) are non-technical.  Even within an engineering firm or government agency, supervisors or directors may not understand the in depth (and specialized) technical analysis presented to them for approval. 

    In my my long career, I have observed that the engineers whose careers progress the most, even if they remain highly technical and analytical, are those who can communicate the basis or results of their work to those either non-technical or less technical in their specialty. 

    An an example from my career is a water treatment project to add ozone disinfection to an existing plant. The utility engineers had a myriad of technical water quality and operational issues that the project (which cost several million dollars), would solve. What sold the project to my Board was a simple demonstration of the significant and highly visible difference in finished water color after ozone treatment. I showed them two containers of each water at the Board meeting.

    ------------------------------
    Bevin Beaudet P.E.,M.ASCE
    Bevin A. Beaudet, P.E., LLC.
    West Palm Beach FL
    (561)373-4442
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-13-2019 07:41 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-13-2019 07:41 AM
    Bevin Beaudet mentions use of props -- containers of water -- as one way of enhancing communication. For an expansion of this topic, go to: Prop Up Your Presentations
    Helpingyouengineeryourfuture remove preview
    Prop Up Your Presentations
    Given that vision is the dominant sense, judicious use of props in your presentations will help others understand and remember your message.
    View this on Helpingyouengineeryourfuture >



    ------------------------------
    Stu Walesh PhD, PE
    Consultant - Teacher - Author
    stuwalesh@...
    219-242-1704
    www.HelpingYouEngineerYouFuture.com
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-13-2019 09:47 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-13-2019 09:47 AM
    Proper communication is a  skill that can be learned whether it is verbal, written, or even non-verbal. All are important in our profession. Just learning to speak well will not mean you can communicate easily in a sketch or in an email. Sometimes I see engineers in a PIM (Public Informational Meeting) that only display project plans for illustrations. Yes, these schematic plans are very detailed and show everything (to an engineer) but are like looking at a Mayan codex for non-engineers. Even their technical explanations (We will mill the quarter panels of the roadway...) leave question marks above the heads of the public and the speakers have to struggle to explain what they mean.

    For speech training I suggest Toastmasters. They will substantially improve your skills and make you seem like a natural. I typically see two types of people at Toastmasters; immigrants and engineers. It's funny because both generally suffer the same problems of not being able to be easily understood! I think it should be mandatory that speakers at ASCE conferences should have at least a year's worth of Toastmasters meetings under their belts. I can tell within the first few sentences of a dry speaker that this will be a challenge to follow. I'm sure most of you can relate to hearing those speakers.

    It would be a mistake for anyone to forget to improve written and visual communication. I have to force some colleagues to fill out detailed forms explaining task requests because they are unable to effectively explain all of the necessary information in an email.

    ------------------------------
    Yance Marti M.ASCE
    City of Milwaukee
    Milwaukee WI
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-14-2019 08:18 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-14-2019 08:17 AM
    Following up on Yance Marti's comment about communication being a learned capability, I suggest thinking in terms of 5 channels, as described here:  Tune-Up Your Five Communication Channels
    Helpingyouengineeryourfuture remove preview
    Tune-Up Your Five Communication Channels
    When thinking about effective communication, five channels or forms are available. They are: listening, writing, speaking, visuals, and mathematics. Engineers and other technical professionals need knowledge and skills in all five areas to be complete communicators. My Turning Point My communication turning point, or defining moment, occurred during the fall semester of my freshmen year as an engineering student.
    View this on Helpingyouengineeryourfuture >



    ------------------------------
    Stu Walesh PhD, PE
    Consultant - Teacher - Author
    stuwalesh@...
    219-242-1704
    www.HelpingYouEngineerYourFuture.com
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-15-2019 02:32 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 03-15-2019 02:31 PM

    ​There is no doubt that public perception has some truth in it. Engineers, just like professionals in every other profession, should make effort to improve or maintain good communication skills. Thanks for all the good suggestions on improving communication skills. 

    Engineering has always been placed high on any public survey as being one of the most trusted professions. Every engineer should cherish that reputation. After years of vigorous training and being bound by ethics rules, engineers cannot simply talk/act like anyone else in the general public. However, engineers should strive to explain to or "educate" the public about the profession's responsibilities.  

    The Texas PE Board rule says the best.

    §137.59 Engineers' Actions Shall Be Competent
    (c) The engineer shall not express an engineering opinion in deposition or before a court, administrative agency, or other public forum

    which is contrary to generally accepted scientific and engineering principles without fully disclosing the basis and rationale for such an

    opinion. Engineering opinions which are rendered as expert testimony and contain quantitative values shall be supported by adequate

    modeling or analysis of the phenomena described.

    137.63 Engineers' Responsibility to the Profession

    (a) Engineers shall engage in professional and business activities in an honest and ethical manner. Engineers should strive to promote

    responsibility, commitment, and ethics both in the education and practice phases of engineering. They should attempt to enhance society's

    awareness of engineers' responsibilities to the public and encourage the communication of these principles of ethical conduct among

    engineers.



    ------------------------------
    Frank Zeng M.ASCE
    Texas Commission On Environmental Quality
    Austin TX
    (512)239-1132
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 03-16-2019 11:41 PM
    Edited by Neil Kazen 03-17-2019 04:30 PM
    A very important issue indeed!

    This has always been on my mind as Vice Chair Advocacy for my Professional Engineers Ontario chapter, and as political campaigner with an Engineering message. So, when an Engineering firm I was associated with, started a Toastmasters speech club, I took the opportunity to lead it. The following was the introduction of my speech "Communicate" used to encourage my colleagues to join the club:

    "A man in a suite was riding in the basket of a hot-air balloon drifting with the wind in the middle of nowhere. To his delight he saw a man standing in a field, so he yelled: "Can you tell me where I am? I'm going to an important meeting & I'm lost". The man answered him: "You are at 5.326 m high; 43.2561 degrees latitude and 87.1376 degrees longitude". The balloonist said: "You must be an Engineer!" "Yes, indeed. How did you know? Is it because I look smart?" "No, it's because you gave me all kinds of accurate information which I can't use. And because of you I'll miss my meeting." "You must be a manager." "How did you know? Is it because I look like a leader?" "No. It's because ...”...  I think engineers can use some communications skills. Such as how to present advice in a usable way, and how to express it with more life in it so that they can have life and may be money as well. In fact, it was found at Purdue University, in the 60's, that Engineering graduates with good communications skills earned $200,000 during their life time more than those with poor communication skills. That's like $2 million today!" The speech goes on to list a great speech story from history that changed the world. and ends with the conclusion: "So folks, whether you are interested in conquering the world or just earning a cool extra 2 million dollars, is up to you. But I know one thing for sure: When you express yourself well you become less likely to be wronged by others; So, you become less likely to carry grudges towards them; You become more likely to have goodwill towards other people and that alone can make you great indeed."

    Aside from that speech winning awards, it motivated many to join our club which went on to win first place among a District of 184 clubs in two categories. Further, three of its members won trophies at Division level (over 30 clubs). Other engineers achieved even more: Around 15 or 16 years ago, the Toastmasters speech champion over a District covering half of Ontario, was an Engineer, and the worldwide champion was an engineer too. So, there's communication talent among engineers, but the fact remains that most engineers are boxed in their technical world. This needs to change. For this reason, two of the three universities in Toronto have recently established Toastmasters clubs at engineering schools. I'm working on helping the third one do the same.

    It has never been as clear as it is right now in Canada: A large Engineering firm is embroiled in issues pressuring the Government of Canada for a compromise. It exploded over the legal system and the media; even causing headlines worldwide. Sadly, some of the arguments tossed around presents engineers as helpless bunch that will starve to death should the Government fail to agree to certain concessions. It is infuriating to see such false claims and saddening to see no response from engineers setting the record straight; only one engineer's defense of the profession is heard: The opposition agreed to post my defense of engineers' ability (not needing charity to survive), on their mobile app, and the main media called me for more info. I hope the current political mess will bring to the surface the issue of engineers' communication. Let's hope for the best. 



    ------------------------------
    Neil Kazen, M.Eng., M.Sc., P.Eng.
    FASCE, FCPCI, FEC,
    Retired Structural Engineering Manager, Transportation Division, SNC-Lavalin
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 05-23-2019 12:23 PM
    After reviewing Stephanie's challenging question for us to contemplate,
    "How do you think we begin to change this public perception?" i.e., engineers don't know how to properly communicate, I wonder if we have missed the point?
     
    For example, during your last significant technically-based verbal remark to another, when is the last time the person you were speaking to said something along the lines of:
     
    "That's an interesting point, tell me more."
     
    Or,
     
    "I'm not sure I understand, could you explain that another way?"
     
    Or,
     
     
    "Is it possible there may be another explanation for this result?"
     
     
    Within the formal Civil Engineering education degree program requirements, I personally am not aware of requirements for the effective and efficient verbal transfer of information from a learned professional Civil Engineer to an interested, but non-Civil Engineer.
     
    Admittedly, proactive, engaged listening consumes far more energy and focus than does delivering a fact-based list of results from a technical report.
     
    That is to say, talking is a lot more fun than listening!
     
    At least that's what us 'talkers' believe!
     
     


    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 05-23-2019 10:39 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 05-23-2019 10:38 PM

    Engineering communication relates to technical concepts academically.  However, the non-engineering majors are more active and pro-active in just talking. Some of your friends might have majored in communication and that's the reason they are even more vigilant. Technical majors could simply agree on non-engineering thoughts and talks to stay in-touch with the public. For example, next time when you see your friends, do not talk about your projects, just talk about the episodes.



    ------------------------------
    Sayed Maqsood
    Alameda, CA
    (510)830-6285
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 05-24-2019 01:48 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 05-24-2019 01:48 PM

    Many great discussions. Thanks Stephanie for initiating an important topic.
    Here is a quip I have heard. Try enjoying it.

    Once there was a high level Ministerial meeting for approval of a civil engineering project. Frank was there representing a client. At one time, the Minister asked, "What do our engineers say?"
    All turned their attention to an engineer sitting in a remote corner of the table. The engineer started by saying, "Sir, if . . ."
    Before he could move further, the Secretary to the Ministry said with an authoritative voice, "Sir, our engineers are very capable people. They are problem solvers. Only, they do not speak much of our language." He looked at the engineer and continued, "Right, Mr. Engineer?"
    A lady assistant to the Minister remarked, "Very impressive."
    The Minister looked at her and inquired, "What is . . .?"
    Before she could answer, Frank joined in, "Sir, it is very impressive that our engineers are fluent in speaking the languages of concrete and steel. They are our high level technicians."
    The Minister looked at the engineer for a comment, hearing nothing sulked, "I see!"



    ------------------------------
    Dr. Dilip Barua, Ph.D, P.Eng, M. ASCE
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Website: https://widecanvas.weebly.com
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 05-25-2019 09:41 AM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 05-25-2019 09:41 AM
    Thank you Dilip.
    Here's another quip:

    "A man in a suite was riding in the basket of a hot-air balloon drifting with the wind in the middle of nowhere. To his delight he saw a man standing in a field, so he yelled: "Can you tell me where I am? I'm going to an important meeting & I'm lost". The man answered him: "You are at 5.326 m high; 43.2561 degrees latitude and 87.1376 degrees longitude". The balloonist said: "You must be an Engineer!" "Yes, indeed. How did you know? Is it because I look smart?". "No, it's because you gave me all kinds of accurate information which I can't use. And because of you I'll miss my meeting". "You must be a manager". "How did you know? Is it because I look like a leader?". "No. It's because you went up riding on hot air. You don't have a clue of where you are going and you are blaming others for your mistakes".

    It was the introduction of my speech "Communicate" used to encourage my colleagues to join the Toastmasters (speech) club at our Engineering firm.

    The speech goes on:

    "Ok, folks, let managers worry about their hot air, but I think engineers can use some communications skills. Such as how to present advice in a usable way, and how to express it with more life in it so that they can have life and may be money as well. In fact, it was found at Purdue University, in the 60's, that Engineering graduates with good communications skills earned $200,000 during their life time more than those with poor communication skills. That's like $2 million today!" The speech goes on to list a great speech story from history that changed the world. and ends with the conclusion: "So folks, whether you are interested in conquering the world or just earning cool extra 2 million dollars, is up to you. But I know one thing for sure: When you express yourself well you become less likely to be wronged by others; So, you become less likely to carry grudges towards them; You become more likely to have goodwill towards other people.... and that alone can make you great indeed."

    Aside from that speech winning awards, it motivated many to join our club which went on to win first place among a District of 184 clubs in two categories. Further, three of its members won trophies as Division level (over 30 clubs). Other engineers achieved even more: Around 15 or 16 years ago, the Toastmasters speech champion over a District covering half of Ontario, was an Engineer, and the worldwide champion was an Engineer too. So, there's communication talent among Engineers, but the fact remains that most Engineers are boxed in their technical world. This needs to change. For this reason, two of the three universities in Toronto have recently established Toastmasters clubs at Engineering schools. I'm working on helping the third one do the same.

    It's better to light a candle than to condemn the dark.



    ------------------------------
    Neil Kazen, M.Eng., M.Sc., P.Eng.
    FASCE, FCPCI, FEC,
    Retired Structural Engineering Manager, Transportation Division, SNC-Lavalin
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 06-04-2019 01:07 PM
    Edited by Tirza Austin 06-04-2019 01:07 PM
    "So, there's communication talent among Engineers, but the fact remains that most Engineers are boxed in their technical world. This needs to change. For this reason, two of the three universities in Toronto have recently established Toastmasters clubs at Engineering schools. I'm working on helping the third one do the same.
    It's better to light a candle than to condemn the dark."

    Thanks, and appreciation to our colleague Neil Kazen, M.Eng., M.Sc., P.Eng.
    FASCE, FCPCI, FEC.


    It turns out that, despite an 'alphabet-long' list of letters and acronyms after our names, it does not inoculate the group called "Humans" from the most dreaded 'fear' of all. When ranked against death, divorce, firing, and the like, the #1 fear we fear most is "Speaking in Public."
     
    Now, on the outside chance, some 'gentlemen' are thinking, "Well, hey, after our golf game or at half-time, the guys always seem quite outgoing and free to speak out about whatever…", that is NOT the "Speaking in Public" to which I refer!
     
    I am addressing the moment right after the moderator has introduced you to the audience, turns to you and states, "OK Harry,". . . for some reason, I always seem to say either Harry or Sally. . . maybe it's from the movie (?)….and you smile, turn to face the audience, and spontaneously realize that deep within yourself, you want the entire audience to immediately just applaud and leave the room, or, you are levitated up to heaven, supported by thunderous applause. Or better yet, are thrown to the floor by a severe heart attack and simply die!
     
    Welcome to what was my world back in 1987!
     
    As an emerging, alleged expert in the management of quality within design and construction firms, I was engaged by a professional society in the Washington, DC, area to do a 2-hour presentation on the subject, "The A/E/C Quality Management System: How to Do It!" This was literally, my very first public speaking event as an alleged expert, whom attendees paid to hear. Within 30 minutes of the start, to my delight, some 60 or more engineers, architects, and construction senior and executive managers had arrived, and more were coming in. Remember, some months before, Dr. W. Edwards Deming has done the CBS show "If Japan Can, Why Can't We?"
    As I knew a few of these folks, I was glad-handing them, smiling broadly, and feeling just great, as I turned, and walked up to the six platform steps to the podium. I then turned, put on my glasses, and faced out into the crowd of then, some 75 or more attendees.
     
    Right!
     
    Go back up now, and re-read what I wrote right after the notes after "Harry and Sally" above.
     
    As I stood there, contemplating who my lovely wife might marry after my funeral, I fumbled and dropped my notes. When I bent to retrieve them, my eyeglasses feel off, and over the platform, down, onto the floor, some 5 feet or more below the platform on which I stood.
    As I straightened myself up and looked out to the audience, a miracle happened!
     
    Without my eyeglasses, I could not see clearly beyond some 15 feet or so out from the platform. The first row of seats <g class="gr_ gr_88 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear ContextualSpelling multiReplace" id="88" data-gr-id="88"><g class="gr_ gr_86 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Grammar multiReplace" id="86" data-gr-id="86">were</g></g> at least some 25 feet out. Then I noted that when I looked out beyond to the others in the audience, I realized something . . . I really could not see them, i.e., not in any detail, it was all a general blur.
     
    So, after my introduction, I started with a great smile and made an enthusiastic presentation. I made a point to look around as I spoke, from left to right, from the front to the back of the room. After, more than a few engineers approached me and complimented me on my ability to speak, and make such intimate eye contact at the same time!
     
    Today's Plan in Deux Parties
    • On <g class="gr_ gr_534 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Style multiReplace" id="534" data-gr-id="534">the  </g><g class="gr_ gr_534 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Style multiReplace" id="534" data-gr-id="534"><g class="gr_ gr_533 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Punctuation only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="533" data-gr-id="533">chance</g></g> you do not have my "Eyesight Benefit," take Neil's example and get to the Toastmasters nearest you. If that one isn't as comfortable as you like, then go to the next closest one. Get over yourself. Stop rationalizing "It's just the way I am." You have a rich depth of knowledge and experience to share. Start getting comfortable sharing it. Part of that sharing will include learning how to say, simply, "Whoops, I was/am wrong, sorry, I will look back into that, and when I have the right information, get right back to you."
     
    BTW, real experts can make the statement right above in less than 3 minutes.
    Others will speak for some 19 minutes, and leave you more confused than when you first asked the question.
     
    • Get with your local civil engineering university department chair today! Ask how you might team to engage their students into a school-based Toastmasters experience. Some universities already have them, and simply may not yet have been invited in by the CE Department.
     
    P.S. Women professionals, it's no secret that you are experts in effective and efficient listening.
    Perhaps you might either continue and/or lead the way in this ASCE CE student Toastmasters formation initiative.
     
    To all….
    Thank you for reading and considering my perspectives.
    Hayden.

    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: The public perception of engineering communication skills

    Posted 06-04-2019 04:48 PM
    Thank you for everyone for your contributions to this thread!

    There was a comment made about women engineers being experts in communication. While I understand the basis for this stereotype, it's still a stereotype, and it's dangerous to the profession as a whole to assume any attribute as associated with mostly men or mostly women. There are many engineers of both genders who are good communicators, and there are many that are bad.

    What is the difference between those good and bad communicators? While some people might have a "knack for it", effective communication is largely a result of active and consistent practice and feedback to improve (which is one of the reasons Toastmasters works). So, I put forth the idea that those that "have a knack for it" were simply encouraged/forced to practice more as kids and through college, or put a focused effort into it at some point in their careers.

    For example, my elementary-age kids are required to "present" something they worked on as early as first grade at school to their class; my daughter who was petrified of doing this the first time is now entirely comfortable with it (she's 8). Similarly, I was personally extremely nervous the first time I had to present at work and felt like I did a terrible job......but I kept on practicing anyway. Now, it's old hat because I've done it so much and I get excited about public speaking rather than nervous.

    Sure, there will be exceptions, but the process and science behind effective communication can be taught. So I wonder - why don't we teach it, train it, and instill it in our engineers with the same fervor that we distill technical knowledge? 

    If there is one skill in the technical world that literally makes everything we do easier, it's communication. When you've learned how to speak, persuade, and story-tell, it's so much easier to gain buy-in on your ideas, get the resources you need to help on projects so you can get home at a reasonable hour, and help your teams complete successful projects. 



    ------------------------------
    Stephanie Slocum P.E.,M.ASCE
    Founder
    Engineers Rising LLC
    www.engineersrising.com
    ------------------------------