I'm intrigued by the comment "one needs to have served as a PE to be able to gain the respect of the PE."
In project management, I deal with many professions including civil engineers, geotechnical engineers, mechanical engineers, structural engineers, biologists, architects, interior designers, energy modelers, accountants, bankers, underwriters, bonding agents, policy makers, specialty contractors, technicians even the odd one-off project professions like barge captains and archeologists that sometimes make their way into a project management plan. There's no way any one person would have the technical background for all the professions to "gain the respect."
People respect PM's for many reasons but mainly because a good PM is good at what he/she does as PM. On my projects, I keep the money and information flowing, I give the technical experts the space and authority they need to do their job, I make sure the project requirements are met using many strategies including employing engineers and redundancy in operating procedures and systems to make sure that project goals and best practices are met. A good PM knows hers/his strengths and weaknesses and knows how to fill the gaps as they exist.
Towards the thread originator's initial point, I've worked as design-builder under contract with Jacobs acting as the PMO on a few projects. Nearly all of my contacts at Jacobs had a PE. The work these individuals performed never required the use of their PE. In the multi-years I've worked with Jacobs, they never were required to review calculations or suggest designs work or modifications. In fact, a few that I talk with regularly wouldn't feel comfortable doing so any longer. Such responsibilities were always carried under the DB contract which included specific licenses and certifications for those roles. As PM, my job wasn't to perform those roles, it was to enable a management plan to allow the execution of the project goals utilizing the PE and other licensing/certifications. It is possible to respect someone and even to have confidence in their ability to execute as PM aside from having once held a PE.
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Jesse Kamm PhD, PMP, A.M.ASCE
Senior Vice President of Construction Management
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-27-2019 19:19
From: Peter Fadden
Subject: Acceptance of non-PE licensed Project Managers by public agencies
Understanding the role and requirements of the PE acting as the responsible Engineer in charge has always been critical for a project manager for engineering projects to assure that project requirements are properly met by the PE. To do that, one needs to have served as a PE to be able to gain the respect of the PE and assure that the project goals are obtained.
Original Message------
Project management is not engineering, never was, never will be. Technical work should and must be done by engineers. Just like the head of a hospital might have an M.D. certification, that person is clearly not a practicing physician; there is too much work to do being in responsible charge of the hospital. So also can engineers make good project managers if they're actually interested in doing that? But once someone laterals over to project management, he or she isn't doing engineering; review your state's professional engineer's act for a specific definition. Attending meetings, cajoling people to stay on schedule, finagling budgets, maintaining document libraries, proofreading reports, creating Gantt charts...none of that requires engineering skill. Most people with a college degree, can-do attitude, decent people skills, and some industry involvement can do that and do it very well.
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Dudley McFadden, PE, D.WRE, M.ASCE
Principal engineer at public agency
Northern California
Original Message:
Sent: 01-31-2019 13:23
From: Kensey Russell
Subject: Acceptance of non-PE licensed Project Managers by public agencies
I'm curious to know if anyone knows of public entities (DOTs, primarily) that require a project's PM to be a licensed PE. Could, say, a highly-qualified individual who has a PMP certification, but isn't a licensed engineer, be a project manager for a project (provided a licensed engineer signs and seals the engineering documents)? Is it a question of preference/tradition/perspective, rather than a legal requirement? Asked another way, does anyone know of a DOT or Toll Authority that regularly allows PMP certifications in lieu of PE licensure for Project Managers in technical proposals?
As a follow-up, would a trend among public agencies to accept non-PE PM's be viewed as a threat to licensure, since the vast majority of public agencies would still require a properly sealed engineering document? By "threat to licensure" I don't mean in the statutory/regulatory sense, but more in the "will less civil engineers be interested in licensure" sense.
Thanks,
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Kensey Russell P.E., M.ASCE
HNTB
Oklahoma City OK
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