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  • 1.  Drawing a sketch

    Posted 03-22-2022 06:04 PM

    I'm trying to develop a sketch of a school 40 students in a classroom 6m×6m. Computer lab is a must. Total 300 students to accommodate. General laboratory and a library is necessary. Does anyone have any advice?

    Alex Thomas MIE REng MASCE

    Alex Thomas R.Eng, M.ASCE
    Ajit Associates+Acd
    CochinAlexThomasR.Eng, M.ASCEIndia

  • 2.  RE: Drawing a sketch

    Posted 03-24-2022 06:23 PM

    Do you need some suggestion about what STRUCTURAL SYSTEM would perform as selected Sir Alex? (that would involve a Spatial 3D Structure, A Frame including type of foundation link, support connection, engage Vs released, Steel Vs Concrete, Simple Supported vs Continuous Beam Elements) ? I might have some ideas of "Structures Conceptions" specially in the field of Structural Concrete technology. Also, I think some Architects colleagues could give you additional insights about how the accommodate people (students) in better spaces if available, in a while.  

    If we can access the "The Overall PROJECT" we might provide precision help deliver to you! In a more detailed perspective, just show some more about it to us, including some 3D drawings or architectural sheets! Also a list of some local construction materials available to do it if is possible..  providing some drawing will facilitate visualizing the entire conception so that we might help you (with this case). In a while, I will providing some of my SE knowledge to provide you an hypothetical answer:

    "In any case I see & I believe reinforced concrete has some potential in India." 

    So a 6x6m system could be develop at a basic level with 4 columns supports with 25x25cm section on fc=25Mpa each corner , with 4 ordinary beams by element base "bw=20xh=60cm" element height (span/deep ratio would at 10% simple supported beam compensating deflections) since the system is suggestive will not have heavy loads at the perimeter in square configuration. With some special care of additional detailing for the reinforcement if there is space out of the 36m² square area for develop concentric footings! , in this case you would require a slab system would be in the core it must not deflect for 6m span.

    - - - THE BEAMS system for 6x6(m) ROOM: 

    - - - THE SLAB system for 6x6(m) ROOM:

    You can also use those 2 tables to estimate the size of the members (MINIMUM Height DIMENSION), IT is not necessary needed to calculate deflection in this case!

    You might use the SLAB SYSTEM Width if the solid core is about "SLAB h=20cm" ln/28. Again, the reinforcement detail in use in this case will make the Difference as so the Concrete Control technology, must matched from the followed perspective of an Experienced Engineer, and it has to be judge by his own decisions including the "BETTER PERFORMANCE SYSTEMS" now.  



    It is possible to use some STM (Strut & Tie Modeling) as Alternative Design Approaches & Tools to OPTMIZING your details of reinforcement for your FRAME Elements Specially if your want to achieve REDUCED levels of "Embodied Carbon" in the STRUCTURE by lowering the unnecessary STEELCONSUMPTION when verticalized STEEL can be resistant by CONCRETE TENSIONED component Vc (Shear Resistance According to ACI 318), in LOCALIZED AREAS In your 6x6m room! You can study modifications in other elements if you need, like abrupt tension flows in columns or slab if you need changes in geometry, so this is always IMPORTANT to have an "ENGINEERING TOOLBOX", a non-linear analysis CAN PREVENT some issues that would injury the structure  in a near future! 

                                                           FELSEGG, 1933 :   BROKEN ARCH  (Robert Maillart)

    Always remember that Quote, if it is possible:  "There is nothing more practical than a transparent theory." Jörg Schlaich

    Additionally, I hope I think I provided some insights & valuable Information .  . .

    Thank you Alex, for your post here!

    *in the ASCE Collaborate Community

    1 -ASCE-SEI Structures Congress 2011

    Conceptual Transparency: Examples from the Work of Robert Maillart and Jörg Schlaich


    2 - CAST (Computer Aided Strut-and-Tie) Design Tool by Doctor Daniel A. Kuchma
    Developed during his presence on the SE Activities in

    University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign


    "Tables 9.5 A and C"  taken from some ACI University Online Courses that  I participated in the past!"

    4- https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Strut-and-tie-models-a-members-without-web-reinforcement-and-b-members-with-web_fig7_282420941
    5- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0141029617300184
    6- https://www.slideshare.net/fawadnajam/ce-7252-lecture-7-strut-and-tie-models

    7-  edX MOOC: THE ART of Structural Engineering: Bridges by MARIA E. MOREYRA GARLOCK  (UNIVERSITY OF PRINCETON)

    Andre Newinski S.E., A.M.ASCE
    Engenheiro Estrutural
    Santo Angelo

  • 3.  RE: Drawing a sketch

    Posted 03-27-2022 10:07 AM
    There seem to be a lot of basic details missing. In my opinion, understanding the space or area requirements for typical desk, egress, walking areas & aisles, and other functional aspects and/or constraints would aid in defining area and layout requirements. For example, age of students would provide some insight as to the type of desk required and typical space/area requirements per student. Thirty-six (36) square meters per classroom does not sound like a lot of space for forty (40) students over a certain age. Are 40 students to be seated at one time?
    There are some standard CAD details or simply create simple boxes the size of a desk area and develop a layout based on those space requirements. Identifying the area requirements and understanding what may be defined as useable area are important factors to consider.  However, step one is defining what is going into a room and the associated dimensions.
    There is a book called "Human Dimensions and Minimum Standards". I just looked it up. It was developed for architects and building designers. I think that is a great place to start.

    James Williams P.E., M.ASCE
    POA&M Structural Engineering, PLC
    Yorktown, VA