ABET Civil Engineering Program Criteria Draft

Expand all | Collapse all

12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

  • 1.  12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 04-29-2021 02:18 PM

    CURRENT CRITERIA

    PROPOSED CRITERIA

    RATIONALE FOR CHANGE

    design a system, component, or process in at least two civil engineering contexts; apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process in at least two civil engineering contexts;
    • The term "apply the engineering design process" has been added to clarify the expected level of achievement (Bloom's Level 3), while also emphasizing the need to learn the design process, rather than just implementing a design.
    • The term "engineering design" is formally defined in the EAC General Criteria.


  • 2.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-08-2021 10:23 PM
    12)    apply the engineering design process to develop a system.... The design process is a system as well.  Recommend "apply a systems approach to engineering design"

    ------------------------------
    Robert Traver Ph.D., P.E., D.WRE, F.EWRI, F.ASCE
    PROFESSOR
    Villanova University
    Villanova PA
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-09-2021 03:50 PM

    Dr. Traver, thank you for reposting this comment.

    In reviewing the current ABET civil engineering program criteria and proposing changes to them, the Task Committee used terminology and definitions from ABET, ASCE, the International Engineering Alliance (IEA), et. al.  Using a systems approach to design is commonly used, however the terminology and definitions the Task Committee used refer to design as a process.  Your comment will be considered by the Task Committee and I appreciate it and the time you have taken in providing your comments.

    The original post is found here and I would like to thank you for reposting it in this discussion so that we can keep track of it along with any made by others.

    Thank you,



    ------------------------------
    Herbert Raybourn P.E., M.ASCE
    Manager, Environmental Permitting Department
    Walt Disney World Resort
    Lake Buena Vista FL
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-26-2021 11:11 PM

    12- 1 of 2. Prior to asserting the "Design Phase Process" is complete, conduct an interdisciplinary search for potential construction conflict between disciplines, e.g., that once structural steel beams are in place, the ME and EE work can be installed without interference, and/or "Change Orders."

     

    12- 2 of 2. Prior to asserting the "Construction Phase Process" is complete, prepare and deliver an "Operations Phase Risk Management Guidelines Manual " to the facility owner.



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-27-2021 11:05 AM
    Dr. Hayden, thanks very much for your contribution to this discussion. The Task Committee appreciates your suggestions for specific issues related to the design process and to the construction process that could be included in a CE curriculum to meet the criteria requirements regarding "applying the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process."  The Task Committee will consider these suggestions for inclusion of the Commentary document which will be developed to complement the new Civil Engineering Program Criteria.

    ------------------------------
    David Dzombak, PhD, PE, Dist.M.ASCE
    Hamerschlag University Professor and Dept Head
    Dept of Civil and Environmental Engineering
    Carnegie Mellon University
    Pittsburgh, PA 15213
    [email protected]
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-29-2021 02:05 PM
    I have thought about this language change for a couple of days, and I continue to be concerned about it.
    First, in the "Rationale for Change" the term "implementing a design" is used. I believe that a design is "implemented" when it is constructed or put to use; and I do not believe that is accurate nor does it clarify the change.
    Secondly, it seems to me that "the engineering design process" has not been defined in a way that it could easily and effectively be applied by ABET evaluators and understood by  programs. It seems to me to be an amorphous term that brings confusion to the evaluation and accreditation process. While I would also likely agree that the requirement to "design" also is open to interpretation, it is a term that has been used for years and is one with which engineers are familiar and comfortable. Thus, I would expect that the navigation around "what must be included in the design of a system - what processes must be used; what detail is appropriate; what work products are needed" - would be would be easier and more productive.
    Third, the proposed language requires the students "to develop a system, . . ." This lacks preciseness. Does "develop" mean that construction is required? This is unrealistic, and I do not believe that it is meant. The language used in accreditation criteria is important. It must be precise; it must use the best words, anticipating that many ABET constituents will need to understand exactly what the requirements mean.

    ------------------------------
    John Koon, Ph.D., P.E., F. ASCE
    Professor of Practice - Georgia Institute of Technology
    John H Koon and Associates
    Atlanta GA
    [Phone]
    Ph.D., P.E.Ph.D., P.E.Ph.D., P.E.
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-29-2021 02:37 PM
    • Qs – ABET-ASCE Unasked questions

     Anonymous survey form to CE graduates:

    1. 2 to 3 year out of school, and separately,
    2. 7 to 9 years out

    1/3: What should your CE dept. continue doing?

    2/3: What ought your CE dept stop doing?

    3/3: What might your CE dept add to their program?

    <>=========================================<>

    For those courses taught by non-English speaking teachers:

    1/3: What ought these faculty continue doing?

    2/3: What ought these faculty stop doing?

    3/3: What might your dept chair do to support such language/custom-challenged teachers?

     Stay Healthy!
    Cheers,
    Bill

     

     



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-29-2021 03:40 PM
    The second part can be misconstrued and I assume it was unintentional.

    The ability to teach is a skill set that needs to be developed in all new professors starting with the hiring process.  I know MANY professors whose native  language is not English who are superior teachers (better then me), and many whose native language is English that have taken advantage of training opportunities to build their teaching and communication skills (I wish I had more available to me early in my career).  Just because English is or is not your native tongue, it doesn't automatically put you in one category or the other. The good news is there are many programs available to improve communication and teaching skills for new professors.  This would be for ALL new hires.  YEs, the department head has to give time, opportunity and direction to new professors, no matter what their native language is.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Traver Ph.D., P.E., D.WRE, F.EWRI, F.ASCE
    PROFESSOR
    Villanova University
    Villanova PA
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-29-2021 04:06 PM
    Dr. Traver,
    My note was not to imply anything for those profs you note in your response.

    I identified only:
    "For those courses taught by non-English speaking teachers:"

    Some students have brought this to my attention over the last few years, on separate occasions.

    Cheers,
    Bill

    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-31-2021 04:46 PM
      |   view attached
    1. ... APPLY THE ENGINEERING DESIGN PROCESS TO DEVELOP A SYSTEM, COMPONENT, OR PROCESS...

            1. System: an assemblage or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unitary 

            2. Process: a systematic series of actions directed to some end.

            3. Component: a constituent of a whole or one of the parts.

            4. Engineering Design Process: A series of steps that engineers follow to come up with a solution to a problem.

     

    • THE PROBLEM IS THE WATCH (see attachment) NO LONGER KEEPS ACCURATE TIME.
    •        Attachment:  Open Back of A Grandfathers Pocket Watch

    If you are able to associate the word definitions at the top of this post with the attached graphic,

    you will understand the intent of each of the four (4) definitions above.

    Stay Healthy!

    Cheers,

    Bill



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    docx
    12. Dr Koon.docx   208 KB 1 version


  • 11.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 05-31-2021 11:07 PM
    I find this offensive, as I am one of those "non-English speaking teachers." To give some more detail, I speak 4 languages (used to speak 5 but forgot German along the way for lack of practice). I do not feel that I am "language-challenged," though, as many times I am the one asked to review documents for clarity. And I certainly do not feel that I am "custom-challenged!"

    The only "custom" that my some of my students might not like, is that I ask them to think in my assessments, instead of just repeating procedures.


    ------------------------------
    Claudio Meier Ph.D., Ing., M.ASCE
    Associate Professor of Civil Engineering
    University of Memphis
    Memphis TN
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 06-01-2021 12:06 PM
    Dear Claudio,
    I do wonder why it is that one immediatley chooses to be "Offended" prior to
    quite simply asking "What exactly did you mean by that?"

    Stay Healthy!
    Cheers,
    Bill

    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 06-01-2021 02:13 PM

     The prior exchanges between Robert, Claudio, and myself ought to be a "Lesson" for Profs to pass on to their students.

    Whenever we make the mistake of immediately "Knee-jerking" our response to what feels like a troublesome verbal or written statement, almost always we end up saying "Pardon me, I misunderstood."

    Going forward in this national/international sociocultural revolution where some feel their only response to an insult is to shoot a gun, start a fire, and other violent acts we must lead the way by not having impulsive reactions. Instead, when able, first ask "Please tell me more about your concern."

    Lead with questions.

    An example follows.

    A woman gets on an NYC subway train at 7:18 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

    She notes that there are 2 persons sitting away at the end of the car, and midway, a man, about 30ish.

    Running back and forth to him are two small children, perhaps 4 to 6 years old.

    After she becomes upset with the lack of behavior of these children, she states to the man

     "If you aren't going to control your children, well, I will!

    To which the man replies "Oh thank you so very much!

    Their mom died 3 hours ago, and I'm finding it difficult to determine how to tell them."

    Lead with questions.

    Stay Healthy!

    Cheers,

    Bill



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 06-01-2021 03:23 PM
    Another thing to pass on to students is that if we use language that is potentially offensive, intentionally or not, to recognize how those words could be misconstrued, and take responsibility for the poor wording.  I can't imagine there are any civil engineering professors in the US who are non-English speaking.

    ------------------------------
    Timothy Murphy P.E., M.ASCE
    Professor
    Trine University
    Angola IN
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 06-02-2021 10:54 AM

    The fairly rapid responses to my earlier, very brief posted remark suggesting we learn more about a remark by some students over the last few years remains devoid of clarifying questions. First responses just question the credibility or possibility of these remarks.

    Yet the brief copy of  part of a post below sent four days ago remains in "Silence."

    I believe the original NAS report was in play since 2017/18.

    I've yet to see this picked up and publicly supported… OUTLOUD!

    Stay Healthy!

    Cheers,

    Bill

    <>===================================<>

    THIS STUDY EXAMINED THE PREVALENCE AND IMPACT OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN ACADEMIA ON THE CAREER ADVANCEMENT OF WOMEN IN THE SCIENTIFIC, TECHNICAL, AND MEDICAL WORKFORCE. 

     



    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: 12. ... apply the engineering design process to develop a system, component, or process...

    Posted 06-02-2021 08:17 PM
    Dr. Koon,

    Regarding our use of the term "implement," your point is well taken.  We could certainly change the phrase to "doing a design" or something similar.  It's important to recognize, however, that  rationale is not a part of the criteria. It's an explanation that was written solely for this forum.

    Regarding the definition of engineering design--here's the official ABET definition which serves as the basis for all EAC accreditation:

    "Engineering design is a process of devising a system, component, or process to meet desired needs and specifications within constraints. It is an iterative, creative, decision-making process in which the basic sciences, mathematics, and engineering sciences are applied to convert resources into solutions. Engineering design involves identifying opportunities, developing requirements, performing analysis and synthesis, generating multiple solutions, evaluating solutions against requirements, considering risks, and making trade- offs, for the purpose of obtaining a high-quality solution under the given circumstances. For illustrative purposes only, examples of possible constraints include accessibility, aesthetics, codes, constructability, cost, ergonomics, extensibility, functionality, interoperability, legal considerations, maintainability, manufacturability, marketability, policy, regulations, schedule, standards, sustainability, or usability."

    I would be interested in your perspectives on why this definition can't be easily or effectively applied by ABET evaluators and programs. Certainly, it doesn't lack specificity.

    Finally, regarding the phrase "to develop a system" -- again, your point is well taken.  But if, in your view, this lacks preciseness, can you please suggest a more precise alternative?

    Thanks!

    ------------------------------
    Stephen Ressler Ph.D., P.E., Dist.M.ASCE
    Professor Emeritus
    Bethlehem PA
    ------------------------------