ABET Civil Engineering Program Criteria Draft

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_7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

  • 1.  _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 04-28-2021 04:27 PM

    CURRENT CRITERIA

    PROPOSED CRITERIA

    RATIONALE FOR CHANGE

    include principles of sustainability in design;

    apply principles of sustainability…in the formulation and solution of civil engineering problems;

    • The requirement to apply principles of sustainability in CE problem-solving is specified as a stand-alone outcome of the CEBOK3.
    • The requirement to apply principles of sustainability in CE problem-solving is specified as a stand-alone outcome of the CEBOK3.


  • 2.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 05-06-2021 11:34 AM
    I do not like the inclusion of the word formulation here. I think it is a lot to ask students to formulate problems.

    ------------------------------
    Andrea Welker Ph.D., P.E., F.ASCE
    College of Engineering
    Villanova PA
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  • 3.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 05-07-2021 11:27 AM

    Andrea, thanks very much for your comment (and for being the first contributor to this Forum). 

    First, I think it's important to recognize that-in including this provision-the Task Committee was responding directly to the BOK (3rd Edition), which specifies "Formulate a possible solution to a complex problem, question, or issue relevant to civil engineering" as the expected undergrad-level ability for the outcome on Critical Thinking and Problem Solving.  Our charge was to use the CEBOK3 as the basis for these new Criteria (though deviations from the CEBOK3 are certainly permissible).

    But more importantly -- Program Criteria can only specify curricular topics, not student outcomes.  Thus, if this provision survives the review process, you won't need to ask students to formulate problems; you'll only need to cover problem formulation somewhere in the curriculum.

    - Steve Ressler



    ------------------------------
    Stephen Ressler Ph.D., P.E., Dist.M.ASCE
    Education Consultant
    Bethlehem PA
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-10-2021 08:51 AM
    Thanks for your response, Steve, but to Andrea's point - is the goal for students to formulate the problem or the solution? I read BOK as intending to form solutions or even alternative solutions, but didn't quite take language as the ability to form a problem. Doesn't the ABET item indicate students will have the ability to formulate problems? By mapping to the Critical Thinking and Problem Solving Outcome in BOK, should the term 'formulate' be replaced with 'identify' or 'define'? I think I am understanding the difference between the outcomes and the curriculum (assessing vs. teaching content), but the mapping to this BOK outcome seems to be a bit of a mismatch if the term 'formulate' is the key link. What do you think?

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    Jenny Retherford Ph.D., P.E., M.ASCE
    University of Tennessee, Knoxville
    Knoxville TN
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  • 5.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-12-2021 01:06 PM
    Dr. Rutherford, thank you for the response.  You are correct that mapping the BOK outcomes to curricular topics is not an easy task especially when considering the cognitive domain level of achievement articulated in the BOK.  Your response will be presented to the task committee.

    Thank you,

    ------------------------------
    Herbert Raybourn P.E., M.ASCE
    Manager, Environmental Permitting Department
    Walt Disney World Resort
    Lake Buena Vista FL
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-13-2021 08:17 PM
    Jenny,

    Thanks for your input.  You've made a really good point.  I just searched the CEBOK3 and did find one reference to formulating problems--but it wasn't in the context of this particular outcome statement--and it wasn't in a "demonstrated ability" table for any outcome.  So you're quite correct (and Andrea's concern is  appropriate too).  Our reference to "formulation...of...problems" in the draft CEPC is clearly not the same thing as "formulate a...solution" in the CEBOK.  And our CEPC wording seems more likely to cause confusion and/or consternation.  This issue will definitely be going back to the Task Committee for another look.  Thanks very much for your diligence.

    steve
    ------------------------------
    Stephen Ressler Ph.D., P.E., Dist.M.ASCE
    Professor Emeritus
    Bethlehem PA
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-16-2021 06:37 PM
    Great discussion everyone.  The BOK3 is a start and provides guidance; however, I do not think our charge limits changes or extensions.  It will be a good discussion.

    ------------------------------
    Jay Puckett P.E., F.ASCE
    Director
    University of Nebraska
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 05-08-2021 10:21 PM
    The term sustainability is more and more replaced by resilience that includes sustainability.  If we disagree that it is included, both are needed.

    I don't see how a system can be resilient without being sustainable.

    Thanks
    (Moved as requested)

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    Robert Traver Ph.D., P.E., D.WRE, F.EWRI, F.ASCE
    PROFESSOR
    Villanova University
    Villanova PA
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 05-09-2021 10:42 AM

    Dr. Traver, Thank you for your time reviewing the proposed draft program criteria, your comments, and the effort in reposting them in the numbered discussions for us.

    Clicking this link will open a new window containing your original post and replies.

    Again, I would like to thank you for your comments.  They are appreciated.

     



    ------------------------------
    Herbert Raybourn P.E., M.ASCE
    Manager, Environmental Permitting Department
    Walt Disney World Resort
    Lake Buena Vista FL
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-24-2021 01:53 PM
    I would suggest that the proposed criteria say "principles of sustainability and resilience...".
    Resilience and sustainability are two separate ideas.  In the context of FEMA, resilience is the idea that infrastructure is designed specifically to be functional after an extreme event (or not, depending on level of need).  This idea is already somewhat baked in to seismic codes and methods, but the broader idea could be applied to all Civil design, which would, in theory, reduce catastrophic failures such as those seen during hurricane Katrina.  For example a good designer should consider components that have a low probability of failure (and thus meet code on a component level), but if failed - could greatly impede recovery after an event.
    Sustainability, in contrast, has a much broader context related to reducing adverse impacts on our ecosystem, which includes carbon footprint, material sources, re-usability and deconstructibility, heat and energy use, etc, etc.
    One can build infrastructure that is resilient, but not sustainable (in many cases, we already do this), and vice-versa (we do this too).  Ideally, both are separate considerations and should be part of a student's education.

    ------------------------------
    Scott Hamel Ph.D., P.E.
    Associate Professor
    Anchorage AK
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  • 11.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-24-2021 02:48 PM
    Dr. Hamel, thank you for your comment.  It will be shared with the Task Committee.  As you stated, resilience and sustainability are separate topics and yet be combined to meet project needs (e.g. limited downtime of an asset and corporate responsibility goals).  I agree, there is value in including both.

    Thank you,

    ------------------------------
    Herbert Raybourn P.E., M.ASCE
    Manager, Environmental Permitting Department
    Walt Disney World Resort
    Lake Buena Vista FL
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: _7. ... apply principles of sustainability ...

    Posted 06-24-2021 03:22 PM
    Scott-
    Thank you for your post.  I agree.  As a developer of seismic fuses that can replaced after absorbing significant seismic energy (get a structure repaired quickly in lieu of deconstructing), I think that we should be teaching how to identify limit states, and consequences of exceedance, and time/plan for fixing the issue (in all areas of CE not just structural).  Structurals are certainly heading in this direction, but other subdisciplines may not be.
    Jay

    All:  See:  https://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Engineering-System-Resiliency-Practice/dp/1492043869/ref=asc_df_1492043869/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416953777802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3518571084148415824&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028871&hvtargid=pla-730215085436&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=93867144397&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416953777802&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3518571084148415824&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028871&hvtargid=pla-730215085436

    for how systems engineers (software engineers) are beginning to address this.

    ------------------------------
    Jay Puckett P.E., F.ASCE
    Director
    University of Nebraska
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------