Discussion Thread

How much do you sleep?

  • 1.  How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-06-2019 12:10 PM

    Sleep affects your productivity at work. I know many engineers who do not get enough sleep. What sleeping habits would you recommend to improve productivity as an engineer?


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    Sayed Maqsood
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 2.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-06-2019 02:59 PM
    Sayed, 

    I would say there is no right or wrong answer. I personally sleep for 7 hours every night (10 pm to 5 am). I think what is important is to get your body in a routine, try to go to bed and wake up at the same time every night (including weekends). This will make it so much easier. I know people that don't need as much sleep and others that need much more, find your sweet spot and stick to that routine.

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    Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Structural Engineer
    Broomfield CO
    luis@...
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  • 3.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-11-2019 03:17 PM
    I would be inclined to agree with Luis.  Personally I average closer to 6.5 hours, but prefer to get a little more sleep on weekends to compensate.  But, that's what works for me.  Ultimately this is more a question for your doctor.  Most recommend 8 hours of sleep a night, on a regular schedule.  But, sleep isn't something that's the same for everyone.  It varies not only person to person, but also by age.  But that's just talking about quantity.

    Quality of sleep is important, and something that is more uniform to all people.  While it not be preferable, or even workable to everyone's lifestyle, there's a few things you can do to improve the quality of sleep you do have.  As someone that's struggled with insomnia this has been something I've read up on more.  As much as possible, keep the bedroom cool and devoid of light sources (clocks/windows/etc).  Avoid watching TV, using phones, or other screens before bed as they stimulate your brain similarly to daylight thinking it should be awake.  Your bedroom should be for sleep, so your brain associates it accordingly.  Avoid late night snacks, especially late meals.  Try to eat your last meal at least 3-4 hours before bed.  Drinking a glass of water before bed can help some, but cause others to awake for a trip to the restroom before morning (find your balance).  If there's something on your mind, some find it helpful to write it down briefly.  Especially if you're concerned about forgetting it (e.g. pick up kids from day care at X time tomorrow).  Avoid alcohol, or other similar nightcaps before bed. Remove distractions that may awake you prematurely, such as phone notifications.

    These are all well and good, but range from easy to impossible depending on a myriad of personal factors.  While you can "catch-up" on sleep, it's not best to count on it like I do.  You cannot "bank sleep", or in other words sleep extra to get ahead on a long week.  Getting the quantity and quality of sleep we need is hard, but it's better for your health, both mentally and physically.  Not only in the short, but the long term.  It's a goal everyone should strive for.

    Do what you can until you're satisfied with your sleep, and if you're still struggling talk to a doctor you trust.  They'll be able to recommend other methods, over the counter sleep aids, supplements, or even prescriptions if need be.

    I think there's no debate that a well rested engineer, is a more productive engineer.  Despite what anyone might say, there's no magic trick to be more restful.  Ultimately you have to find what works for you and stick to it.

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    James Smith P.E.,M.ASCE
    Design Engineer
    Grand Rapids MI
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  • 4.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-13-2019 07:58 AM

    Thank you for your input James. As you pointed out the normal sleeping- hours are ranging from 7 to 8 hours. Consuming healthy food, drink a glass of water before sleeping and avoid alcoholic beverages before sleeping are all nice factors that mentioned by James.  For sure, quality of the sleeping is vitally important. Your answer, a well-rested engineers is more active and proactive engineer is right on point.



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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 5.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-13-2019 07:58 AM

    Thank you for your discussion Luis. It seems you're among those engineers that are well-organized and sleep well for straight 7 hours, however, weekend sleeping hours are variable for some of the engineers and that's due to family functioning, stepping out and doing a few other tasks.



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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 6.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-17-2019 11:10 AM
    I agree, but that is when you need to realize that your sleep is important. I often work on Saturday mornings and have a family of 3 (with a 13-month-old baby).

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    Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Structural Engineer
    Broomfield CO
    luis@...
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  • 7.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-18-2019 12:28 PM
    If you stay with the family on Saturdays you will be able to be 100 percent responsible for your family time.

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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 8.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-18-2019 12:37 PM
    That is the beauty of managing your time efficiently. It does not matter if I work or not on Saturdays, I am ALWAYS 100% responsible for my family.

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    Luis Duque EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Structural Engineer
    Broomfield CO
    luis@...
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  • 9.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-11-2019 04:55 PM
    Sleep is critical to top professional performance.  If you are tired, it can be very difficult to produce good calculations.  As much as we would all like to push overtime to get the job done, design calculations are not the same kind of work as say, drafting.  I could draft for hours and hours. Calculations will drain you by the end of the day.  If you show up tired, it can be a tough day.  Managers need to understand this.  It cannot be tolerated frequently, but we all have days when you just can't get into a groove.  Music can help move things along.

    I have been tracking my sleep with a fitbit.  The novelty has not worn off.  I find it to be accurate.  It has basically confirmed that my typical pattern is 6 1/2 hours regardless of bedtime.  It has shown me that I actually sleep more than I think when I have a hard time getting some ZZZzzz's (when I am building a stair in my head).  It is also normal to get up in the middle of the night as part of a 4 hour sleep cycle.

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    Chad Morrison P.E.,M.ASCE
    Professional Engineer
    Greenville RI
    (401)231-4870 EXT 2207
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  • 10.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-13-2019 07:58 AM

    Thank you, Chad, for your discussion. You mentioned a few good points; engineering calculation need a good night sleep and listening to the music can help to refresh the mind and the body. I love to listen to classical music once tired of doing calculations.  Another good point is sleeping cycle. If engineers maintain sleeping cycles of 7 hours, 4 hour or 2 hours, it still counts normal sleeping habits. What's significant is the quality of the sleep not the cycles of the sleep. You could sleep 3 cycles  of 2 hours each, that's still 6 hours normal sleeping time.



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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 11.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-13-2019 08:00 AM
    Dear Sayed, I noticed that you got very valuable information. Nevertheless, there is an excellent blog for you: Weekly Brain Tools: Sleep is NOT for the Weak! 9+1 Practical Tips to Sleep Better - The CEO Library
    The CEO Library remove preview
    Weekly Brain Tools: Sleep is NOT for the Weak! 9+1 Practical Tips to Sleep Better - The CEO Library
    The text below was sent in January 2019 to our newsletter subscribers. If you enjoy it and want more, join us. Throughout my life, I've met a few people who were proudly talking about how they only need four hours of sleep to function.
    View this on The CEO Library >

     In this blog Christina offers an interesting perspective about how we as engineers feel about bragging about no-sleeping. It is not cool and not safe. I am not the best example but you should sleep minimum six hours to clean your body (sleep deprivation is toxic to your brain and every tissue...). Regards.

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    Andres Guzman Ing.,M.ASCE
    Associate Professor
    UNIVERSIDAD DEL NORTE
    Barranquilla
    573004284680
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  • 12.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-15-2019 09:30 AM

    Thank you, dear Andres, for sharing the blog regarding sleep. You mentioned that sleeping deprivation is toxic to brain and body. Insomnia can cause unsafe functioning and everybody need to sleep the minimum required hours  in order to function normal and be normal.



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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 13.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-14-2019 10:17 AM
    From reading the other posts, it looks like we can all agree that getting regular, quality sleep can certainly help all of us be more productive. Having been one of those all-nighter college students who often thought I didn't have time for sleep, I can say that these days I place much greater value on sleep. I'd like to steer this conversation in a slightly new direction. Thus far, it seems that we have talked about things we can do, but are there also things that employers can do to help employees be more productive?

    I believe one of the other responses noted that we can't always implement all of the measures that would help us get better quality sleep. For example:

    I am currently pregnant with my 4th baby. My oldest child is 5 years old, so my house is pretty crazy to say the least. Growing a little person in your belly is exhausting. Middle-of-the-night bathroom breaks during pregnancy, or having a newborn that needs to be nursed in the middle of the night completely throws that whole "quality sleep" idea out the window. At this point, there are days when I feel completely exhausted and no amount of coffee can help. Ultimately,  I just need some sleep.

    I believe that greater flexibility in the workplace can enhance employee productivity. Honestly, if I am feeling absolutely exhausted, and am having a hard time focusing, then it just might be a better use of time for me to take a little nap in the afternoon. I think employers can be supportive of this habit by giving people the freedom to close their office door and take a little nap break. Perhaps they can provide a napping space for employees that don't have an office door to close. 

    Allowing greater flexibility for when employees need to be at the office in the morning is another way that employers could help people be more productive. Not everyone is a morning person. Some of us will be much more productive if we can sleep a little later in the morning and show up at 9 or 10 am instead of 8 am. 

    The ability to work remotely can also be a great help. For example, perhaps that employee that wants to show up a little later in the morning can have the option of getting additional work done later that evening/night from home.

    Obviously there are times when we have a meeting or a deadline or some other reason why we might need to skip a nap or show up earlier to work. There are also some jobs or tasks that require an employee to be at a particular place at a specific time. But, I think that greater flexibility in the workplace that allows us to listen to our bodies better and follow our own natural sleep rhythms would help us all be more productive and more creative.


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    Kelly Farabee P.E.,M.ASCE
    Savannah, GA
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  • 14.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-15-2019 09:33 AM

    Thank you, Kelly, for developing this discussion with a practical example. Your comments made me go online and search the pregnancy due date to do a simple calculation concerning sleeping while pregnant. A suggestion for those female full-time workers, who are cooking at home and taking care of their babies, the employers should give them 2 hours bonus time. Their full time should be 6 hours instead of 8 hours. They need that 2 hours. Let's get back to your pregnancy, a simple calculation shows that pregnant women are experiencing insomnia while the baby is growing periodically.  My suggestion, is, that the employer reduce the working hours for pregnant women starting from her second month pregnancy as follows.

    First month to second month = 7 working hours = pay full time

    Second month to third month = 5 hours working hours = pay full time

    Third month to fifth month    =  4 hours working hours  = pay full time

    Fifth month to seventh month = 3 hours working hours = pay full time

    Seventh moth to due date = sick leave = pay full time

    Notes:

    The above division is  just a statistical calculation and it has nothing to do with the medical aspects of the pregnant women.



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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
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  • 15.  RE: How much do you sleep?
    Best Answer

    Posted 06-17-2019 11:10 AM
    Hi Sayed,

    As far as pregnancy is concerned, I do like the idea of being able to work a reduced number of hours - like 38 hours per week instead of 40. I do think that could help women to better balance the physical demands of pregnancy with work life. 

    Ultimately, I don't know that pregnancy necessarily would require sick leave to begin at 7 months. In a healthy pregnancy, working up until close to the due date shouldn't be too difficult. Also, a lot of companies don't even provide full time pay during maternity leave. Realistically, I'm not sure it is feasible for many of the smaller firms to pay full time benefits for a mother to be out of work for a few months. Of course, in a case where there are pregnancy complications, some women might be required to go on bed rest. Depending on the nature of that women's job, working remotely might be a great option.

    As a working mother, I would like to see our industry work to better accommodate working parents. I think there have already been shifts in that direction through more flexible work schedules and the ability to work remotely. I think an area that we should consider exploring more is child care. I wonder if there is a way that companies could help parents who need child care for small children. I live in an area where child care is a lot less expensive compared to other parts of the country, but trying to find care for my older children has proven almost impossible - every daycare we call has a long waiting list!

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    Kelly Farabee P.E.,M.ASCE
    Savannah, GA
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  • 16.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-17-2019 02:19 PM
    Applying numbers to a personal health matter is just about impossible.  Policies can be addressed in employee handbooks, but details are best to be avoided as everyone's needs are different.  Hiring employees of good character and work ethic is the best approach.  When there is a problem... the employer will be more than willing to make accommodations as there has been a trust developed over time.  

    Sleep documentation or nap times is frowned upon in the workplace.  The only real place I have seen it is in trucking.  The other group are first responders and soldiers who are required to answer the call.

    It should be noted that fatigue has been documented as a precursor to accidents on the jobsite by Professor John Gambatese, M.ASCE.
    Precursors of Construction Fatalities. I: Iterative Experiment to Test the Predictive Validity of Human Judgment | Journal of Construction Engineering and Management | Vol 143, No 7
    Ascelibrary remove preview
    Precursors of Construction Fatalities. I: Iterative Experiment to Test the Predictive Validity of Human Judgment | Journal of Construction Engineering and Management | Vol 143, No 7
    In order to prevent fatalities, new methods of evaluating work conditions and making predictions are needed. Nuclear energy, chemical manufacturing, and commercial airline industries have all used precursor analysis to predict and prevent catastrophic events. This paper presents the first steps toward a precursor-analysis process for the construction industry.
    View this on Ascelibrary >



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    Chad Morrison P.E.,M.ASCE
    Professional Engineer
    Greenville RI
    (401)231-4870 EXT 2207
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  • 17.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-14-2019 10:18 AM
    Good morning Sayed!

    When I was still attending university, I most often slept from 2 or 230 AM to 530 AM, then took a nap from about 1230 PM - 130 PM during the week.  On Friday evening, I would be in bed by 10 and sleep until noon Saturday.  By all accounts, this is a terribly unhealthy sleep schedule, but I felt GREAT when I could sleep this way.  I had incredible energy, had no problems with weight, and was in fantastic health in general.

    Now that I am working full time, I most often sleep from about 11 PM to 5 AM and generally feel good on six hours of sleep, but not nearly as good as I felt on my previous schedule.  Usually, if I sleep more than 6 hours I am sleepy and foggy minded all day, but I currently have a broken foot and I'm sleeping from 9 PM to 6 AM frequently and I'm still needing more sleep.

    All of that to say - I think the most important thing about sleep in to find what works for your body and be willing to change if your needs change.


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    Kathryn Osborn EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Beaumont TX
    (409)866-0341
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  • 18.  RE: How much do you sleep?

    Posted 06-15-2019 09:29 AM

    Good Morning! Kathryn!

    Thank you for bringing up memories from back in the days. I would say during college you sleep deep compared to later days when you get more involved and evolved. You have no idea how many nights I stayed up on campus to study the whole night and the next day I was ready to go to class. It was all right. I can't function that way anymore. As you grow up older, you get more involved and sleeping becomes a problem. I wish you good health and take care of that leg. Your broken leg might cause you to be foggy minded. And don't worry about being sleepy very often, sleep brings sleeps, just try to get that 7 hours sleep routine. Lol


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    Sayed Maqsood S.M.ASCE
    Alameda CA
    (510)830-6285
    ------------------------------