e. Do not discuss the meeting nor findings for at least 24 hours after the meeting.
discussion meeting.
* Your firm purchases the paperback and provides space for your discussion groups. . . and of course, coffee!
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2020 11:31 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
- Heidi, some issues you noted included:
- "if you are going to chastise members for not following your rules. . . "
IMHO, providing clear straight talk based on education, training and development to another who may not yet studied the issue is neither a chastisement nor "Hayden's Rule!"
It is my attempt to share what I have learned . . .rarely from university. . . to "Raise the boats" within and throughout our profession.
- "I've been studying Spanish and Latin American culture since 2006, and I am currently enrolled in grad school in a university in Mexico. I've heard these items brought up by people across age ranges and across multiple countries."
Perhaps you are already doing or have plans to lead an initiative within ASCE Sections to plan, organize, and deliver specific foreign language continuing education sections. With all possible respect to our engineers, I think currently, as you so assertively note, we need to move these topics into our engineering portfolio.
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill
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William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 09:50 AM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
Bill,
My point was that there is no such thing as "Mexican language" in the same way we don't speak "United States of American." They speak Spanish. As in the US, there are some native languages spoken as well, but none are "Mexican."
Along those same lines, many people in Latin America are frustrated when we call ourselves "American" meaning "one from the USA" when asked where we are are from. The difficulty with this is that we don't have a word for "United Statesian" like there is in Spanish. It is understandable, though, since anyone from Canada down to Argentina is an "American."
To continue in productive communication without creating an unnecessary barrier or feeding an assumption that we think we are more important than anyone else, we can simply reply with "I am from the United States."
I try to say I am from Oklahoma in the United States, but I also communicate to friends that we don't have an English equivalent of "estadounidense," so most people aren't trying to discount that others are also Americans. Increasing understanding on both sides can go a long way.
It seems to me that if you are going to chastise members for not following your rules for communication (never saying "positive" or saying "efficient" without "effective"), you could bear in mind these items that impact such a large and diverse community.
I understand that no one in your group ever corrected anyone, but that doesn't mean there isn't something to consider.
I've been studying Spanish and Latin American culture since 2006, and I am currently enrolled in grad school in a university in Mexico. I've heard these items brought up by people across age ranges and across multiple countries.
To tie this back into Daniel's original question, if someone has a supervisor from another culture, it would be good to have an open conversation around expectations regarding communication. I know in college we had some breakdowns happen between professors and students with different cultural expectations of what the professor-student interaction should look like. Until those expectations were brought to light, both sides were frustrated.
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Heidi Wallace EI,P.E.,M.ASCE
P.E.
Tulsa OK
Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2020 11:24 AM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
Dear Heidi, thanks for reminding all of us about critical sociocultural language issues.
Perhaps the following might reassure you of what my notes were meant to highlight within the specific environment noted.
But first, a brief quiz.
- What is the label for one who speaks two languages well?
Bi-Lingual!
- And speaks three languages well?
Tri-Lingual.
- And speaks one language well?
American.
- "proper name of a native language instead of "Mexican language."
For some years I was part of the Mexican Society of Quality, IMMECA.
Jose Gonzales, exec director, and his staff worked closely with me for their annual Quality Conferences held within Mexico. They have since disbanded.
I enjoyed the privilege of sharing what I could to folks who never once corrected colleagues by insisting they identify their proper name for their language or related speech. We, each and all, if we had yet to learn each other's name, would say "You know, the guy (or gal) from Chile, Spain, Manila, New York, etc., etc., etc."
- "Understanding other cultures is another key to productive communication. "
Well, if you have a moment, some of the information I sent Daniel on related topics supports your reminder.
- "I think it is an overreach to assume the translation of "gut" to the equivalent of "bowel" was intentional or wouldn't have happened if the speaker had been more friendly."
Now here Heidi you may have been academically "Right on" except for what I explained.
I was right there, in person, sitting where I could see, listen and understand this specific example why not first building a friendly relationship particularly across cultures may result in an undesired result.
Right after this incident, the group went to "Break" and this lesson was understood.
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill
p.s. As I am aware of the time and effort you contribute to raise the knowledge of non-engineering subjects, please consider leading the formation of ASCE Sections doing small-group study and discussions on the above and related issues.
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William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 10-23-2020 08:53 AM
From: Heidi Wallace
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
Bill,
If we are going to nitpick semantics, I highly recommend saying "Spanish" or the proper name of a native language instead of "Mexican language."
Understanding other cultures is another key to productive communication.
As someone that has interpreted a live presentation, I think it is an overreach to assume the translation of "gut" to the equivalent of "bowel" was intentional or wouldn't have happened if the speaker had been more friendly. It is incredibly challenging to listen in one language and speak in another, especially since the order of the words can vary greatly.
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Heidi Wallace EI,P.E.,M.ASCE
P.E.
Tulsa OK
Original Message:
Sent: 10-22-2020 01:38 PM
From: William Hayden
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
Thursday, October 22, 2020
Effective Communication with Supervisors.
Hi Daniel, thanks for the subject and clarity of your questions.
My response for your consideration includes and goes beyond "Methods for clear and acceptable questions within the engineering workplace." And as such, it is not limited to engineers early in their career.
I am delighted to see you, early in your career, intuitively knowing that BEFORE you move onto an issue, you wish to know that those you speak with receive the intended question or statement efficiently and effectively.
So, my first comment is to ask you to never again use only one of these "E" words in a sentence.
Efficient X Effective = Productivity.
They, together, state what you are to do and how it will be done.
· Language in Thought and Action: Fifth Edition[1]
S.I. Hayakawa (Author), Alan R. Hayakawa (Author)
What is meant by level of abstraction?
The amount of complexity by which a system is viewed or programmed. The higher the level, the less detail. The lower the level, the more detail. The highest level of abstraction is the entire system. ... See abstraction layer.
· Reflection 1 of 2
In my experiences within engineering firms in the US, Canada, Japan, Philippines, Seoul, Oporto, Budapest, and Mexico, given about 70% of engineers are introverts, if you wait for the department head, project manager, and other supervisors to initiate open-ended questions at project startup, that project has already begun losing time, budget, and will probably require re-work later in the schedule. It is because they are ignorant, i.e., "not knowing," due to antiquated university engineering curriculum as to "How to play nice with others."
Our students are told what to do and how to do it as to the technical tasks, but almost nothing instructional about what and how to cooperate, collaborate, and communicate with other people . . .here, and abroad.
· Reflection 2 of 2
At an international conference just south of Mexico City, Mexico, I participated in a few ways:
a. Presented a half-day seminar on " Quality Management by Design™."
b. A member of a working group of professionals discussing the implications of the then-emerging ISO9000 standard.
c. Attended an open session for all invited papers
It was during this open session where I learned to always be "Nice Always & Smile" to interpreters when the speaker presenting required their support during their presentation.
So, up comes a technical presenter who turned out to be from Germany, had been living in the Mexico City area for over 17 years, and asked for his speech to be translated into Mexican language. He delivered this request curtly and spoke to the interpreter harshly when doing this.
Anyway, about 15 minutes into his talk the entire audience of about 330 attendees from at least 14 countries spontaneously broke out into laughter. Once it died down, he completed his talk.
As I normally sit at the rear of the hall for 'early exits,' that was right in front of the interpreters. So, I asked one, "Why did the laughter break out?" She said that the speaker said, "You have to, at times, just rely on your gut instinct to make a decision."
What the interpreter said to all was "You have to, at times, just rely on your bowels instinct to make a decision."
Caveat Emptor!
Stay Healthy!
Cheers,
Bill
[1] Strongly recommend you read this first, and then setup a chat-time with your colleagues to discuss its implications in project/task life at work.
------------------------------
William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
Buffalo, N.Y.
"It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
Original Message:
Sent: 09-28-2020 03:44 PM
From: Mandeep Singh Kohli
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
Daniel,
I will share a couple of things I learned during my journey and a couple of things I have seen in people who come with questions to me:
1.) When you are fresh out of college you have more liberty in asking questions. You can ask the silliest of questions to your supervisors and co-workers, but when you have a few years of experience you are supposed to know some things already. So don't hesitate when you have any doubts, the longer you keep them the more difficult it becomes to clear them.
2.) Do your homework. A lot of the work that we do is now very well documented in terms of practises and publications and we also have tons of online resources at our disposal,, so when you are faced with a problem try to solve it yourself, there is no bigger joy than that. If you are still not able to get around it, then at the very least you will be able to ask more direct and precise questions, since you have already dug around a little
3.) Try to sneak in when you boss is having a cup of tea or when he is in a more relaxed state, use it occasionally.
4.) Don't shy from putting in extra hours initially, the more you invest in yourself during the first few years the higher dividend it will give in the later few years.
5.) From a technical point of view I have found that the most informative and easy to understand portion of the codes is the commentary. If you are facing some technical difficulties spend your time reading the codal commentaries of AISC. ASCE, ACI , API , PIP etc other practices. These go way beyond the bounds of the code itself and have lots of great research insights. Read them like a novel.
6.) Always take interest in the work of your team mates. Just observing what the other person is doing and taking interest in his work can allow you to learn much more than what you would by just focusing on your own deliverables.
All the very Best!
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Mandeep Singh Kohli CP, M.ASCE
Senior Engineer
India
Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2020 06:33 PM
From: Daniel Bressler
Subject: Effective Communication with Supervisors
As a young engineer, communication and asking questions are highly prioritized. Often times when approaching my supervisor and coworkers I feel that I am bothering them or that I caught them unprepared (even if they insist I am not).
Now that many companies have moved to work online communication is more important than ever.
I wanted to know if entry/associate professionals can share what methods they use to effectively communicate?
Can the supervisors and managers share what steps junior engineers, like myself, can help take to communicate more effectively?
Looking forward to hearing from everyone!
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Daniel Bressler EIT, A.M.ASCE
Junior Engineer
Brooklyn NY
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