Discussion Thread

Questions about licensure

  • 1.  Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-15-2019 10:39 AM
    Preparing for the P.E. can seem like a daunting task. Please use this thread to ask questions you may have about obtaining licensure.

    ------------------------------
    Tirza Austin
    Senior Coordinator, Online Community
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    1801 Alexander Bell Drive
    Reston, VA 20191
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2019 07:50 AM
    Anyone know how early you can start taking the test?


    ------------------------------
    Zachariah Culbert A.M.ASCE
    Engineer in Training (civil)
    Three Rivers MI
    (269)372-1158
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2019 10:01 AM
    I believe it depends on the state  in which you are planing to take the exam. For example, in Oklahoma or Texas you are able to take the PE exam after your FE exam.

    ------------------------------
    Richard Campos S.M.ASCE
    Student
    Oklahoma City OK
    (405)473-0192
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-17-2019 11:16 AM

    Every state is a little different in terms of requirements for taking the PE exam. There are some states that allow taking the test before having the experience requirements. I will be traveling to Illinois to take the PE before I have the required experience. Once I have the required experience I will then apply for the licensure in my state. The benefit for me to take it earlier is having some of the material fresh in my mind. See following link for a great document about the testing regulations by state.

    https://www.nspe.org/sites/default/files/resources/pdfs/admin/publications/NSPE-When-Can-I-Take-the-PE-Exam.pdf

    Hope this helps and good luck studying,



    ------------------------------
    Charles Kieffer A.M.ASCE
    Student
    Cambridge MN
    (763)220-3821
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-18-2019 10:24 AM
    Thank you, Charles, for this resource!

    Does anyone have any templates they can share or general advice on how to organize your 4 years of progressive engineering experience? I want to make sure that I have it organized now so that I am not scrambling to find information when it comes time to apply.

    ------------------------------
    Danielle Schroeder EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Associate Engineer
    Pennoni Associates
    Philadelphia PA
    (267)269-2509
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-19-2019 10:18 AM
      |   view attached
    Danielle,

    I just applied for Ohio a couple months ago and Ohio requires you fill this attached Form 1011 for each of the companies you worked for. Note: any time you percent as not in the Engineering category counts against you, i.e. Non-Eng/Sur AND Surveying counts against you. I found this out the hard way this week.

    I've had a supervisor recommend keeping a log (electronic or paper) with an entry for each week or month where you list what engineering tasks you worked on. This helps when it comes to filling out the application (and the Form 1011 for Ohio). I unfortunately never got around to making said log, so it took me some time to fill out those forms. The engineering log would have been greatly beneficial if you have worked for multiple companies or changed major positions within your company.


    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Borton A.M.ASCE
    ASI Construcion LLC
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)



  • 7.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-19-2019 10:18 AM
    Hi Danielle,

    One of the best pieces of advice i had about resume writing is to make an "accomplishments" section. So at each position, you can list major projects you worked on and highlight skills learned/used. I think this is a great way to highlight how dynamic you can be in any position! Hope this helps.

    ------------------------------
    Angela Beling A.M.ASCE
    Milwaukee WI
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 09-12-2019 10:08 AM
    That's a great resource, Charles.  Thanks for sharing!  Another reference some may find helpful is NCEES' page with contact information and links to state licensing board sites. This provides a quick reference for finding where to get more detail on regulations and any recent changes in a particular state.

    As James noted below, some states won't accept a P.E. exam taken before the required experience has been achieved.  Minnesota has a specific license application for those who passed the P.E. in another state before completing the required experience, so you may not have to retake the P.E. exam there.  But, if you plan to seek licensure in Minnesota after taking the test early in Illinois, you should check the Minnesota Board's rules in more detail to confirm their process.

    ------------------------------
    Rebecca Waldrup P.E., M.ASCE
    Senior Manager, Professional Activities
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    Reston VA
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2019 02:09 PM
    I am preparing for F.E. If anyone would wish to send me any study materials it would be great.
    My email is mansoortaj22@...

    Thanks,

    ------------------------------
    Mansoor Taj Mohammed A.M.ASCE
    Arlington TX
    (510)953-8879
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-17-2019 06:48 PM
    Yes -- if anyone has materials for the FE Environmental Exam, I would greatly appreciate them too! My email is abigailcartwright2@.... Thank you! :)

    ------------------------------
    Abigail Cartwright A.M.ASCE
    Student
    Cambridge MA
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-18-2019 11:53 AM
    Good luck with your FE! I remember taking it towards the end of my junior year. It wasn't particularly difficult but it's still useful to review some concepts. Some good tips:

    1. Leaf through the reference PDF, it's good to know what it does and doesn't cover
    2. Review the fundamentals of engineering economics and math, those are often overlooked by students
    3. Don't panic if you see a hard question. The exam has a number of problems that don't have corresponding equations in the reference book.

    If you have any other questions let me know.
    paul.lee@...

    ------------------------------
    Paul Lee P.E.,M.ASCE
    Civil Engineering Associate
    Los Angeles Dept. of Water and Power
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-19-2019 05:40 PM
    For those studying for the FE Exam, here are two (one free and one low-cost) exam prep. resources:

    ASCE members have free access to AccessEngineering, an online resource of references and tools at https://www.asce.org/accessengineering/.  One of those resources is the "All-in-One Fundamentals of Engineering Civil Exam Guide."  I can't testify as to its quality, but it is described as a self-study guide and written by a licensed engineer who is an engineering professor and exam coach.  If anyone has used it, let the group know if it helped you.

    NCEES sells FE practice exams for about $30 each at https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/.

    I hope these are helpful!



    ------------------------------
    Rebecca Waldrup P.E.,M.ASCE
    Senior Manager, Professional Activities
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    Reston VA
    (703) 295-6281
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-20-2019 10:13 AM
    Thank you, all, for these resources! This thread has been very helpful -- I really appreciate it.

    ------------------------------
    Abigail Cartwright A.M.ASCE
    Student
    Cambridge MA
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-22-2019 03:33 PM

    I would strongly advise against taking the PE before you have your 4 years of experience if you plan to apply for licensure in other states, especially if they require it before taking the exam.  I have several co-workers that took advantage of being able to take the exam early in our state (Michigan).  Then when our firm expanded to Ohio and started seeking out work there they found out that if they wanted to become a PE in Ohio they would have to RETAKE THE PE EXAM.  Which if you've taken it, you'll agree is something you NEVER want to take again.

    Especially young in your career, you don't know where you'll want to end up in 5, 10, or even 20+ years.  So, just because you don't plan to practice in these states now, doesn't mean you never will.  Waiting to take the PE is frustrating, but I highly suggest waiting until you have your 4 years experience.  Also as Ben mentioned a lot of states require it to be design experience.  So field/survey experience may not count.  When in doubt, give yourself a buffer.  I had 4.5 years of experience (a couple months of that field work) before taking the exam.

    When you plan to take the PE there's some steps you can take to make sure you're licensed quickly after passing.  These steps will vary greatly by state (as Ben mentioned) so look on NCEES for links to the requirements of every state and start filling out those forms.  Best time to do this is after you take the test in the (agonizing) waiting period to find out if you passed.



    ------------------------------
    James Smith P.E.,M.ASCE
    Design Engineer
    Grand Rapids MI
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-28-2019 09:25 AM
    Over the years, this resource has been found quite useful for review preparation...and affordable.. Cheers, Bill


    Consider this resource for your preparation:

    https://www.mhprofessional.com/9780071777117-usa-civil-engineering-pe-practice-exams-breadth-and-depth-group

     "Civil Engineering PE Practice Exams: Breadth And Depth"

    • Published:January 17th 2012
    • Edition:1
    • ISBN:9780071777117
    • Format:Print
    • Pages:352

    Availability:In stock $54.00

    COVERS ALL EXAM TOPICS, INCLUDING:

    • Structural: materials, member design, design criteria
    • Geotechnical: soil mechanics, foundations, excavation, seismic issues
    • Water resources and environmental: hydraulics, hydrology, water supply and quality, wastewater treatment
    • Transportation: capacity analysis, planning, freeways, multilane highways
    • Construction: scheduling, estimating, quality control, safety


    ------------------------------
    William M. Hayden Jr., Ph.D., P.E., CMQ/OE, F.ASCE
    Buffalo, N.Y.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot 1819 - 1880
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-29-2019 10:48 AM
    Hi Bill,

    This is a great resource. It is also available for ASCE members for free through Access Engineering. You will need your membership login to access the resource.

    Here is the link:
    https://www.accessengineeringlibrary.com/content/book/9780071821957

    ------------------------------
    Tirza Austin
    Senior Coordinator, Online Community
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    1801 Alexander Bell Drive
    Reston, VA 20191
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-29-2019 04:04 PM
    Quick tip, if you are trying to use the link above using Google Chrome as your web browser and it is not working, try Internet Explorer. That is what I had to do to be able to get the "Access via AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS" to work.

    ------------------------------
    Danielle Schroeder EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Associate Engineer
    Pennoni Associates
    Philadelphia PA
    (267)269-2509
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-29-2019 02:42 PM
    I would caution against using older resources.  As frustrating as it is, they do change the exam every year, updating the recommended texts you need to bring.  Sure, it usually isn't major but they're prone to ask questions basically to see if you have the latest versions with you.  For example when I took the exam in October of 2018 they had changed transportation references to the latest version of the Highway Capacity Manual (2018) and the revisions changed several equations required for the exam.  Enough that using the old version would give you a wrong answer.

    Not that you can't use older references, it's a lot of money to get all new ones, just that you need to find out what's changed and note it in your books. NCEES and PPI put out revisions to their materials that you should keep an eye out for.  Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    James Smith P.E.,M.ASCE
    Design Engineer
    Grand Rapids MI
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 08-05-2019 01:06 PM
    I thought this article about which exam to register for was very helpful. Leaving it here in case anyone is deciding on sitting for the P.E. environmental exam or the P.E. Civil exam with a depth focus on water resources and environmental.

    ------------------------------
    Tirza Austin
    Senior Coordinator, Online Community
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    1801 Alexander Bell Drive
    Reston, VA 20191
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 09-11-2019 06:03 PM


  • 21.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 10-08-2019 01:11 PM
    I wanted to share this new Member Voice by @Alexander McCaskill. He provides some great tips on how he passed the P.E. Exam. ​

    ------------------------------
    Tirza Austin
    Senior Coordinator, Online Community
    American Society of Civil Engineers
    1801 Alexander Bell Drive
    Reston, VA 20191
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-15-2020 11:44 AM
    I am planning to take the PE Civil: Geotechnical. Can anyone share which references/materials/books helped you answer most depth questions?

    ------------------------------
    Ricardo Ayala EIT, A.M.ASCE
    Geotechnical Engineer
    AECOM
    Roselle Park NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-15-2020 04:48 PM
    I highly recommend looking into the School of PE prep course. You get to choose your depth area, and the notes from the class were one of my main resources on the exam.

    There are options for how you attend the class (live or on-demand), and it really helped me stay on track to study and pass the exam on the first try.

    ------------------------------
    Heidi Wallace EI,P.E.,M.ASCE
    P.E.
    Tulsa OK
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-15-2020 06:49 PM
    I would agree that School of PE was very helpful.  I didn't take the course, but was able to use leftover notes from a co-worker.

    I also used the Lindberg book quite a bit.  It's pricey, but it's a good resource for having all in the information in one place and used it a lot on exam day.  The companion 6 Minute Solution book I found to be more stressful than helpful.  The problems were a lot harder than the exam and just got me discouraged.  The Lindberg Equation book was good, but I got it late and was more familiar with the big book so I didn't use it as much.

    I also had some Test Master notes and found them to be much more confusing than helpful.  Each section was radically different format from the others making it hard to follow.   Perhaps they've improved since, but if you're looking into courses School of PE would be my top recommendation.

    I also used civilpepractice.com for practice problems.  Those were a lot like the exam.  At the time they didn't have a lot of problems, but they were a great resource as were their books.  I didn't use their review course, when I found them I was only looking for practice problems as I was done with general studying.

    Use lots of tabs in your books so you can find stuff quickly.  Color coding and briefly labeling them may seem excessive but it helped me a lot.

    Good luck!


    ------------------------------
    James Smith P.E., M.ASCE
    Project Engineer
    Bergmann
    Grand Rapids MI
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 09:13 AM
    Thanks very much for the tips James, Noted! ​​​​​

    ------------------------------
    Ricardo Ayala EIT, A.M.ASCE
    Geotechnical Engineer
    AECOM
    Roselle Park NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-17-2020 01:57 PM

    Hello Ricardo,

    My name is Charu Gupta and I manage the Live Exam Review Courses at ASCE.  Please let me know if you have any questions about our Live Exam Review courses. You can contact me at cgupta@.... We presented a discussion on July 15, Licensure and its Role in the Civil Engineering Profession,  and the archive of the session can be found https://www.asce.org/continuing-education/elearning-webinars/. You can also learn about our courses through that archive.

    Good luck and take care!



    ------------------------------
    Charu Gupta Aff.M.ASCE
    Manager, PE Exam Review
    ASCE
    Reston VA
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 09:15 AM
    Thanks Heidi, I will look into it! I am just wondering if you heard any feedbacks about the ASCE review classes?

    ------------------------------
    Ricardo Ayala EIT, A.M.ASCE
    Geotechnical Engineer
    AECOM
    Roselle Park NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-17-2020 01:44 PM
    I really like the way the ASCE Course lectures are organized and the way they cover the material!!!  I took another course last year, and I was not a fan of the way the course was instructed or how the course was laid out. I would recommend ASCE's Review Course.
    ------------------------------
    Jacob Selph EIT,A.M.ASCE
    Land Surveyor\Engineer
    Henderson KY
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 01:20 PM
    Thanks Heidi! Can you give some recommendation for the Civil FE exam too?

    ------------------------------
    Tung Nguyen, PhD
    Washington State University
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 02:23 PM
    Tung, many states will waive the FE if you have your PhD in Civil Engineering.  Something to look into.

    As far as studying goes the FE exam has changed dramatically since I took it (in 2013).  As you're probably aware you can take it more often (not just twice a year), it's digital (no pencil/paper), it's shorter (6 hours instead of 8), and it's breadth of knowledge has been reduced.  I would recommend using any of the same resources for the PE but formatted for the FE to study.  So for example get the Lindburg materials (if you like them) then when you prepare for the PE down the road the format will be familiar.

    For the most part, for the FE I just did practice problems with solution guides.  They're not as intense as the PE stuff so if you practice a lot you should be fine.  Frequently I would just search for the variables I was provided and find an equation to plug them into.  Most of the learning is know what variable symbols correspond to what you're given.  (e.g. if it says change in temp is 'number' then you know you need to find an equation with delta).

    Most important thing is getting familiar with the provided equation PDF as you cannot bring your own materials, except a calculator.  Get an approved calculator that can solve equations (Ti-36X Pro was my choice, but some people prefer Casio).  Avoid printing the PDF as you will have to use the digital one (benefit is ability to use search function).  "Practice like you play", if you will.  Do practice problems at a computer using the PDF equations and a whiteboard.

    Good luck!
    ​​

    ------------------------------
    James Smith P.E., M.ASCE
    Project Engineer
    Bergmann
    Grand Rapids MI
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 02:27 PM
    I was one of the first rounds of students to take the FE on the computer.

    What I did for the FE was study for 18 hours spread over 3 days.

    I spent 6 hours a day for 3 days studying, took one day off to rest, and took the exam the next day.

    My biggest advice for the FE is to be familiar with the manual provided to you during the exam. Know what they call things -- sometimes terms vary based on what professor or textbook you had for a class. Know what variable symbols are used in case they differ from what you are used to seeing.
    Since the FE exam is online, you can use Ctrl+F to search the manual for keywords. That is why it is crucial to know any differences in terminology.

    Also, look at the list of topics covered on the exam and focus a portion of your study on the topics that are not in the manual. Some topics, like geotech and surveying, require memorization of basic formulas or methods.

    If there is a course you haven't taken, don't sweat it too much. Trying to self-teach a whole subject will be stressful and likely counter-productive.
    When I took the exam I hadn't had my water and wastewater treatment course yet. I was able to answer at least one of those questions correctly by searching keywords from the question in the manual and finding the correct formula.


    One of the best pieces of advice I received besides knowing the manual was to have a strategy on how you approach the exam.
    When you get to the end of the first section, the exam will take you to a review screen. The review screen will tell you what questions have been answered, skipped, and flagged.

    Below is a description of my strategy to prevent wasting time and not having to guess on questions I could have solved if I'd gotten to them.

    • If I knew I could solve the problem in less than a minute or so (so not looking something up in the reference manual), I answered it when I read it.
    • If I knew even with a lot of time I would probably not be able to with any confidence get a correct answer, I just made an educated guess and moved on.
    • If I knew I could figure the problem out with more time, I flagged it and moved on.
    • If I thought I could maybe answer it with a lot of time, I took an educated guess and flagged it.


    When I got to the review screen, I started by clicking to jump back to the unanswered questions.
    Then I did the unanswered flagged questions.
    Last I worked on the answered but still flagged questions.


    There is a such thing as studying too much and doing too many practice questions. Base your study on being confident on your review but not to the point that if something that you didn't study comes up it makes you panic. Remember, it's pass fail; you don't have to get a perfect score to show proficiency.


    ------------------------------
    Heidi Wallace EI,P.E.,M.ASCE
    P.E.
    Tulsa OK
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-17-2020 03:13 PM
    @Tung Nguyen - Heidi gave some great tips above! I second getting to know the Reference Manual beforehand as it is sprint while you are taking the exam, so make every second count!

    I actually spoke at Drexel ASCE earlier this year about preparing for the FE. You can view those slides here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Bk44earUCf-WDblHu7z2XytbCJsODzRazK1dh_CMUBg/edit?usp=sharing  ​  There I listed a few YouTube channels that helped me prepare for the FE back in 2017.

    I also want to mention this ASCE Member Voice article on preparing for the FE written by a colleague of mine: https://collaborate.asce.org/careerbydesign/blogs/christopher-medora1/2019/12/12/preparing-for-the-fe-exam

    Good luck!!


    ------------------------------
    Danielle Schroeder EIT, A.M.ASCE (She/her)
    Associate Engineer
    Pennoni Associates
    Philadelphia PA
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-19-2020 09:35 AM
    Thanks so much Danielle, Heidi, and James!

    ------------------------------
    Tung Nguyen, PhD
    Washington State University
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 09:14 AM
    I had never heard of the civilpepractice.com for practice problems but checked out a few sample questions online and agree the questions are very similar to the exam. You may see books of questions/solutions called six minute solutions and found those to be extremely harder than the PE. As for some great sample Geotech Depth questions I would recommend the purchase of the NCEES exam practice problem book typically $40. As mentioned in the thread below by James. It is a great help to use colored page tabs with a short note on the big Lindberg book. I am not familiar with equation book. Also you need some of the text in big book to help answer the non-analytical questions that could be asked and that will help you on the multiple choice answers.

    I also recommend you have a plan for time management. Work your way through and handle the easy questions in the exam and don't get hunkered down in the more involved questions early. Be sure to track your units and answer in the correct units on your exam. The exam multiple choice answers will give values that can be calculated sometimes but may be in the wrong units based on what the problem statement is asking. For example: make sure to convert your load force from lbs to tons if the problem asks for tons capacity of a pile or something.

    Also keep mind the exam questions are built for you to apply logical thinking and application of concepts. The exam questions are not something that requires you to over think  or to find a hidden meaning. They are not there to trick you, they are there for you to apply info that you should know how to apply equations and you should know what references to use in order to find the characteristics or definition of condition.

    NCEES Practice Exam - Geotech morning and afternoon.
    https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/314

    ------------------------------
    Jeremy Pampuch
    Harleysville PA
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 09:15 AM
    Hi Ricardo,

    Please do check out engineerboards.com forum. There you'll find  lot reviews of different study guides/ classes. It has a greater sample size than here wrt to exams. It helped me a lot in understanding the exam better. Understanding the exam structure will help you in the long run. I would recommend checking out EET. Recently it got divided into EET and AEI. They both come highly recommended.
    All the best.

    ------------------------------
    Rajeev Naik A.M.ASCE
    Student
    Beaverton OR
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-16-2020 10:56 AM

    Ricardo:

    My company at the time I took the geotechnical PE had the Lindbergh manual and some practice questions.  That reference, supplemented by my college textbooks "Foundation Design" and "Geotechnical Engineering", both by Donald Coduto, were more than sufficient to complete the afternoon portion of the geotechnical exam.  My experience in the morning was that the Lindbergh manual and practice questions were sufficient without further reference materials, but I did have textbooks on the other subjects as well. 

    The big thing to remember on this is START EARLY.  I started looking at the materials on a limited basis four months before the test, looking to see any glaring holes in my memory, and two months before the test started working on practice problems for all subjects.  Having been in geotechnical practice, those questions were relatively easy, but had to brush up on structural, environmental, fluids, and survey materials.  Once you've done the prep work, the test is the easy part!



    ------------------------------
    Joseph M. Rozmiarek, P. E., M.ASCE
    Principal Engineer
    Roseville, MN
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: Questions about licensure

    Posted 07-17-2020 03:39 PM

    @Ricardo Ayala,

    The Civil Engineering Reference Manual (CERM) by Lindeburg is a great general reference and I still use mine for the tables in the back. I also highly recommend Six Minute Solutions (Geotechnical Depth) and NCEES's PE practice exam with geotechnical depth for practice problems. Other books like a soil mechanics book (I used Terzaghi), retaining walls, geotechnical principals, etc are useful (I just took the ones I kept from undergrad). 

    I also highly recommend taking a review course and ASCE has a good one. It goes through information for the morning session and will then go more into depth on an afternoon session (so you can pick geotechnical). There's also one where you can choose a deep review for all afternoon sections which I don't think you need. While the course may seem expensive, it's completely worth it IMO. And you can discuss with your employer about paying or splitting the cost with you (mine reimbursed me after I passed).

    Hope that helps!
    Jennifer



    ------------------------------
    Jennifer Sloan Ziegler Ph.D., P.E., M.ASCE
    Ridgeland MS
    ------------------------------